Punishing those with mental problems

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast
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    Do you believe that it is biblical, God's will, to punish someone who does not understand what they are doing is wrong? Would you discipline your child for what they did if they did not understand the wrong they were doing or did? Does you answer apply to those who break the law or is that some other standard?

    Here is an example you might use as reference;
    http://www.chron.com/news/article/Loughner-pleads-guilty-to-Ariz-shooting-3767622.php
     
  2. Scarlett O.

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    Punishment? Maybe or maybe not. Depends on the severity of the mentally challenged or incompetency due to extreme youth.

    Discipline? You bet! Discipline is a benign procedure that includes pre-emptive training on how to behave. Proper discipline can thwart the need for punishment down the road and can be an effect tool in preventing re-occurring offenses.

    Punishment is ... well, punitive. And it should cost the offender something. It could include pain of some kind.

    Discipine is benign and painless and should teach the offender how not to offend again.
     
  3. Yeshua1

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    Think that the person would still be guilty of doing the crime, but would be sentenced to help, NOT in the normal prison/jail system!
     
  4. nodak

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    Loughner is clearly mentally ill.

    I don't think the courts are trying to punish him, but rather utilizing the laws as they stand now to protect the innocent.

    Sentence him to prison for life, and then treat him so it can be as healthy a life as possible while keeping the rest of us safe.

    Send him to a mental hospital and existing laws will probably have him released when the docs say he is sane (on his meds) and with his disease, upon release he will likely go off meds and hurt someone.

    We need to change the system so the mentally ill can be compassionately treated, but HELD for the safety of the rest of us.

    Until then, I applaud this compromise.
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    Don't we have guilty, but legally insane?

    can the Joker get that verdict, and sit behind bars for life?
     
  6. Arbo

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    At least one here will contend that there is no such thing as mental illness. :rolleyes:

    I have a feeling the whole M.I. series is about to go into reruns.
     
  7. freeatlast

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    If it was not punishment they could have sent him to a mental institution and keep people safe.
     
  8. nodak

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    No, there is no such thing under current laws as sending a person to a mental institution for life.

    Under the law, once treated and considered sane, they get released.

    Guilty but mentally insane sends one not to a mental hospital, but to prison.

    HOWEVER, there are special units for the mentally insane in prison.
     
  9. freeatlast

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    .
    "HOWEVER, there are special units for the mentally insane in prison."

    You have been watching too many movies. Also who mentioned life in a mental hospital. If the person is sick they should not be punished with prison, correct? At least that is what i heard a few weeks ago on this board. They need medical treatment not punishment, correct?
    As for a life sentence to a mental hospital there is such a thing ij all states and it keeps the person in for their life unless they show to be healed or under proper care. So why are you for punishing a sick person with prison?
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    So IF not executed, the Joker will end up in one of those 'special units", right there with Charles manson?
     
  11. freeatlast

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    There are no special units.
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    Him and Charlie would be excluded form the general populance though, wont they?
     
  13. freeatlast

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    No they would not. A prisoner can ask to be kept out of population for their own safety, but there are usually still in a population with others who are separated.
    Police officers who go to prison are usually put right into population and it is very dangerous for them. So no this guy would not be segregated because he is a nut case. Remember they just about all nut cases the only thing that varies is how they show it. There is no such thing as a treatment type hospital enviorment in prison. They are treated as the general population.
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    did not know that! just assumed that even other prisoners would see those such as Joker and Charlie as being even to them dangerous and weird!
     
  15. freeatlast

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    While some are intimated by those folks there is always some who see them as a trophy. On average the prison wardens and guards mostly have the behind the scene attitude if they kill one another it is one less criminal to deal with. Thus the reason for prison gangs for protection.
     
    #15 freeatlast, Aug 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2012
  16. Yeshua1

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    Wouldn't someone like the Joker though ahve 'groupies", who would want to become part of his gang, so to speak?
     
  17. freeatlast

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    I really don't know.
     
  18. nodak

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    There most certainly are treatment units in prison systems.

    Sometimes it is just a small section of a general prison, but there are mental and physical treatment units in the prison system where a whole unit (prison) is a treatment unit.

    Had a dear friend from church, who had two sons in the prison system of Texas. One was in the general prison population in one town.

    Other was diagnosed with a mental illness and transferred across state to a treatment unit.

    Still had to serve out his sentence, but also got good treatment so that when released he could maintain life on the outside.

    I also have a son that suffers from bipolar disorder and was incarcerated.

    In fact, he committed a crime, turned himself in for it, was found guilty, and sentenced to prison where he was diagnosed. He too was separated from the general population in a treatment unit and got good treatment for his disease and stabilized on meds. He then got cancer and was sent to another unit, not general population, and treated for that.

    Once stable on both counts he was sent to the general population to serve out his sentence.

    freeatlast, the laws vary from state to state as to how long the mentally ill can be held. Don't know of a single one where they can be held "forever".

    But convict them of the crime and they can be held in prison "forever".

    Again, you spout much but clearly do not know beans about brain disease OR the laws surrounding it, so there is no point any further comments responding to you.
     
    #18 nodak, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012
  19. Van

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    The issue is not what we might do, but what scripture tells us God in fact does! Even though people did not sin as Adam sinned, i.e. knowingly violate God's instruction, they still died, indicating God's punishment for going against what was God's will for their lives. So ignorance of the Law might lessen the punishment, i.e. knowledge of the Law magnifies the consequence of violating it, God's perfect justice requires folks to be punished for what they did and should have know was wrong. For example, when you treat others differently than you treat yourself, your hypocrisy earns the wrath of God, even though you never understood the command to do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    But what about those who are unable to understand even that, such as feeble-minded folks or children who do not know their right hand from their left. They would still be condemned for unbelief, but would not seem to qualify for torment for misdeeds.
     

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