Purpose driven life ...

LOL, Granny! You're still way back there!!!

 

Wow...

While it is good that one never has to guess what your opinion is, I would challenge you to research a little further before you lump all the aforementioned movements into the same category.

I, like Diane, could give testimony of lives changed by the simple memorization of scripture required within the Awana children's clubs.

By the way, it was wrong of me to take your quoted statement out of context. Please forgive me.

 

Daniel: I love you brother, but your sarcasm and put-downs and judgementalism against Christians who disagree with you--don't sound like no "work of the Holy Spirit" to me. We can be aggressive, and humble, firm but loving, opinionated, but never bigoted or age-discriminatory ("enter the 21st century granny").

You'll be okay, I'm sure you meant no offense. We both get quite adamant at times, and I admit I must guard myself also in this regard.

Another grave concern I have with the 40 Days of Purpose, besides the schlocky promotion material and very poorly conceived and written support documents (like suggested church bulletin insert copy)...

...is the huge emphasis on "exponential" thinking. He encourages leaders to seek numbers, rather than quality disciples.

Our Celebration Sunday was a total failure. Despite large investments of time, energy, and prayer, we had virtually 0% church growth. A few new people came to our church on the first two Sunday services devoted to 40 Days, then attendance dwindled.

The money we spent on advertising and promotions, and supplemental supplies from Saddleback, was mostly wasted.

I sent two emails to Rick Warren telling him I had important recommended revisions to various 40 Days promotion literature...never heard a word from him or his staff. Those enhancements are now headed for the garbage.

The 40 Days literature and promotion strategies are some of the worst material I have ever seen, and I know, because I have been an advertising executive for longer than I want to say, and have done work for General Motors, Scholastic Magazines, Chemical Bank, U.S. Mint, U.S. Department of Defense, Caterpillar, and many other prestigious firms.

Most of the provided and purchased material had to be completely re-written by our Youth Pastor and myself. The "Welcome to the Planet" small group workbooks were hard to read, lacking substance, thrown together, worthless. It was a mess from day one, sorry to say. A big headache, with virtually NO RESULTS, outside slight spiritual advancement which may or may not be long-lasting.

The more I think about it, the less I favor it.

Order paperback copies for your church of MY UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST, or Thomas a Kempis' THE IMITATION OF CHRIST, or Brother Lawrence's PRACTICE THE PRESENCE OF GOD, PERSONAL WORK by R.A. Torrey, EXPERIENCING GOD by Henry Blackaby, THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY by A.W. Tozer, EXPERIENCING THE PRESENCE OF GOD by Charles Finney, or even maybe Teresa of Avila's THE INTERIOR CASTLE to spur spiritual growth.

Not 40 Days of Purpose or The Purpose Driven Life.

Our church did the Purpose Driven Church program before I started going to the church. All that happened was they demoted vital announcements to the end of the service, when nobody pays any attention to them, due to hunger for lunch, and they got rid of hymns and put in monotonous, hypnotic, repetitive "praise choruses" one line over and over again.

Big deal. No growth in numbers or spirituality.

Keep searching. Rick Warren isn't the way to go.




[ March 08, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: vaspers ]

 

Vas...no harm intended by my firm posts. I used to pussy-foot around in my posts. I stopped that a ways back because I was compromising the truth and not telling like it needed to be told. My ulitmate goal is to shake loose a lot of the polite formalism that obscures the true needs and conditions of our hearts.

At the same time I am very hard on myself. I am not some pious, hypocritical pharisee pointing my finger at others. I am MORE tough on myself than I am on others. If I could post to myself it would scorch the monitor.

 

You is cool, Daniel.

I knew I was right to cut you a tiny bit of slack and give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'm cheering you on all the way, bro. You are a worthy debate opponent, or are we opposed very much? I dunno. But I do know--you is super cool!

 

Vaspers...thank, bro! I know we are on different sides at times, but I sense that we have a common goal--shake up the ordinary and replace it with stop-and-make-you-think ideas. May we proceed with valor!

 

Vaspers,

Sorry to hear your 40 Days experience was so unsuccessful. Your experience is quite the contrast to most. We experienced the exact opposite and continue to see great benefits from the 40+ days.

I am sure the success of the program had nothing to do with the type of attitude you continually demonstrate in your posts toward your church leadership and ministry.

As Warren often says, it is not the unchurched who give us problems, it is the religious people.

 

One of our Sunday school classes did 40 days of purpose and it has meant a lot to them, they report a noted spiritual grownth in themselves, more of them are serving God,and their class has grown,and they've had several salvations due to them being more active doing what they are supose to. And the gospel wasn't watered down once, they are more commited to it then ever before.

 

I haven't read the book so I can't comment on it's contents. I ahve the book but haven't read it yet, when I do I'll be taking notes.

 

<I was a Pioneer WAAAY back in the '80's>
AWANA is no longer KJVO????!!!!

I absolutely loved AWANA, and really looked forward to Wednesday nights at church. Our church stopped at Pioneers/Guards, and the older Pioneers were sometimes utilized to help out with the Cubs/Sparks if they needed more "older people." As an 8th grader, that really meant a lot to me, and was always eager to show that I could be responsible and help the adults. I learned more than just Scripture in AWANA. (My "help" mostly consisted of doing attendance sheets and sweeping up after game time!!)

That one made me spit coffee all over my computer.

I think that I still have my Timothy Award somewhere.......

 

SBCbyGRACE--thanks for your sympathy for our church's failed 40 Days of Purpose program.

I'm not sure why it failed so badly. Lots of reasons most likely. None of our programs did much. The pews were full of pew potatoes, sorry to say. I created a survey during 40 Days to ask church members to indicate what type of ministry they wanted to know more about, no committment, just more info.

Got about 2 surveys returned, from an SBC church congregation of 180 or so attenders. Even a non-commitment survey they refused to bother to fill out. Everything was like that. They just went to Sunday morning service, and that was it. Only 6 to 12 for Wednesday night prayer service.

Very sad situation. I now, as many realize, am visiting other Baptist churches, trying to find a new church home. Your prayers are appreciated. This venture is a prayer thing. Can't do it by the human reason. Need direct spiritual guidance.

Let me add this: one program I really liked was A LIFE GOD REWARDS by Bruce Wilkinson. That was shocking to most church people, who used to think heaven would be the same for everyone, like a communist paradise or something. Boy, does Bruce shatter that vain delusion. Great stuff. Do you know of it?

 

Based upon your words here, I can probably guess your level of leadership experience within a growing, relevant church.

As a pastor of a growing purpose-focused church, I can tell you that it is not the Berean types that give me difficulties. Most of my problems stem from those more focused on their own preferences than they are fulfilling the Great Commission.

 

Is there any thought as to what Christ instituted in the body to which he gave authority to engage the Great Commission? Is it hard to accept that all that was needed he placed in the church at Jerusalem?

Bro. Dallas

 

Too bad you are not the judge of what is waffling and what is not.

All you need to tell me is that you are KJVO (or if you are into the facade -- KJV Preferred) and everything will be brought into its proper perspective and I can simply sigh and thank God again for his deliverance out of spiritual bondage.

 

It must be nice to have the gift of infallible discernment. Where is that located in Scripture again?

I agree completely. That's why you are not the standard of what is in error and what is not.

I will assume you are not suggesting that the devil got Billy Graham to where he is (seems like a big mistake on the devil's part if he did ) and that BG is filled with pride. But then again, if you have the gift of infallible discernment, you are probably capable of discerning people's motives as well.

You wish it were the simple to lump those who disagree with you in a single category. Actually I have never preached from The Message. I have over 30 hours in advanced greek study, so there is no need for me to use paraphrases.

How much Greek have you taken? I would think that understanding the original language would be vital to your gift of biblical discernment.

 

Typical response for one who does not want to answer the questions or deal with the issues.

You might want to go back and answer the questions or else we will just assume you are a lot of smoke with little fire.

And while you are at it, can you refer me to that passage that says "pride and compromise usually go hand in hand." You do not want to be guilty of misusing scripture.