Question about compatabalistic free will

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Cypress, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. Cypress

    Cypress
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    Many of you know that I genuinely attempt to see the strengths of different viewpoints. Here I am looking to reconcile the compatabilists view that holds that humans are free to do what they most want to do. Is this held by most here that it applies only to faith in God? Meaning that the lost (unable,depraved, etc.) will not choose God since they don't most want to do that apart from divine enabling.
    And subsequently, are humans ever free to choose what they most want to do.....in other words, do we ever really deliberate over which choices to make or is it illusory?
     
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Let me just muse a bit here.

    I want to fly like an eagle. But I know that if I jump off a building I will not fly, but fall to my death.

    I want to live more than I want to fly.

    I assume everybody wants to go to heaven.

    But some desire their sinful life more than they desire God.
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    When the "Law" makes us aware we are wretched sinners, that leads us to Christ. To say it only leads those who have been altered by supernatural grace, alters the meaning of the passage. Paul in Romans 7, looking back on his preconversion life knew he was battling to do what he wanted to do, but was not able. Thus, to say our depravity results in an inability to desire God is unbiblical.

    Capatibilism is a ruse to sell exhaustive determinism. It says we cannot choose other than what our past dictates, and therefore our corruption precludes us from choosing life when God sets before us life and death and desires us to choose life, Deuteronomy 30:19-20. Thus it rewrites scripture to say God sets death only before some, being unable to choose life, and life only before others, being unable due to irresistible grace to choose death. Thus compatibilism redefines the biblical meaning of choice as non-choice. You cannot make a choice that alters the outcome of your life. Not what scripture clearly teaches.

    No, the compatibilist view applies to every illusionary choice we make, according to the ruse.

    The answers to your questions concerning the reality presented in the bible as opposed to the reality presented by the philosophy of men can be answered by God's word only if we submit to its authority. If we revise the meaning of words according to man's traditions, we make scripture to no effect.

    Does the Bible say we make choices?

    Do the choices alter the outcome of our life?

    How does scripture read to you? Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. Or whoever God has enabled to believe in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
     
  4. jbh28

    jbh28
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    Well said Tom. We always choose what we desire most. In many cases we have competing desires and choose the one we want most.

    Example: You are confronted with a guy that has a gun and he tells you to give him your wallet. Now, do you really want to give this guy your wallet that has all your money in it? No, of course not. You would rather keep it. However in this case, you would rather live that die, so you give him your wallet.

    I like your flying example.
     
  5. Cypress

    Cypress
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    Thanks for the responses thus far...some people jump on purpose too!...To Tom, Jbh and others then in your view, who or what determines the wants and to what degree. Does man determine them and thus the problem, or something different. I typically don't wonder what or who determines why I want one thing over another but it seems a valid question in the compatibalist sense.
     
  6. Brother Jeremy Slone

    Brother Jeremy Slone
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    The Law was given to Israel as a school master to bring them unto Christ but the Lord said he had given them the law in vain. -Jeremiah 8:8

    Did they not try to justify themselves by the works of the law. When Christ came was there not just a remnant saved and the rest blinded and that remnant by the election of Grace. -Romans 11:5

    Well here is those altered by supernatural Grace, Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: ............31:33... I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    You see it takes the new birth before there can be a conflict between two natures. Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body ye shall live. You see the choice is to the brethren to be obeidient or disobeidient. Not to the Natural man of the world that hath not the Spirit of God. They have only one nature or one will. But we have a greater will with in us that causes us to deny our outer will. Romans 8:9 ... Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Philippians 2:12.... ,work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. :13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. You see these are born of a new will a new desire and are made able to do those things they would not under their old nature left to it's self. Thats why Romans 9:16 says So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. But I do declare if the Lord shows mercy then the vessel will willeth and will runneth.
     

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