question about God's "preserved" Word

I did say it contains the Word of God, but when you take out the blood, then the spirit of the antichrist had something to do with it. Example: KJV Col 1:14 says "...through his blood...," all other versions except the NJKV leaves this out. I wonder why?

 

daffney said:

1. God is not the Author of confusion.

Wow, right off the bat, a missaplication of the verse. The "confusion" Paul is writing about is disorder in the church service, e.g. everyone talking at once, not the kind of confusion caused by conflicting Bible readings - which, I will say for the umpteenth time, I have yet to experience in one single situation.

a. Unison reading is impossible.

Not so. The passage to be read could be printed in the bulletin, read from the "official" Bible in the pew, or projected onto a screen so that everyone is reading the same text.

This is an argument from consequences. It changes the subject, and is therefore invalid.

b. people quit bringing their Bibles.

This, too, is a fallacious argument from consequences.

2. On page 7, he brings in to question the integrity of so many publishers who keep producing so many new improved renderings.

This is an ad hominem argument that changes the subject from the text of the Bible to the character of the publishers, and is, again, invalid.

3. Pg. 13, "almost all modern english translations rely heavily on hebrew and greek manuscripts of the Bible developed by liberals, rationalists, and evolutionists, none of whom believed in the verbal inspiration of the Bible.

Again, an ad hominem argument. He does not deal with the content of the texts - do they contain the correct readings? - but simply disparages the character of the editor.

4. Pg. 13, "the common people today especially those without higher education still love and use it (refering to the KJV).

Another fallacious argument - this time argumentum ad populum (appeal to the common man).

5. Pg. 13, "The modern versions commonly tend to use long words and pedantic rhetoric, but the KJV uses mostly one and two syllable words."

Selective reasoning. So do the modern versions, if one takes the time to actually do a scientific readability score.

6. Pg. 14, Many sections can easily be read by children as soon as they learn to read at all.

A non-argument, as it is also true of the modern Bibles.

7. Pg. 16, "thee, thou, and thine, were used to express the second person singular; with you, ye, and yours reserved for second person plural.

Another non-argument - the English dialect of the modern versions does not employ these pronouns. Why should the Bible?

[ October 25, 2002, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

HomeBound said:

I did say it contains the Word of God

Big deal. There's a word for people who claim the Bible "contains" the Word of God but stop short of affirming that it is the Word of God.

The word is liberal.

 

I'll tell you why. The translators decided that the manuscript evidence indicated that it was not originally in the text. The same reason the KJV "leaves out" things like :

- " The LORD is faithful to all his promises
and loving toward all he has made." in Psalm 145:13
- "the Holy Spirit" in Acts 4:25
- "through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages" in Jude 1:25.

Don't just assume that if something is present in one version and not another, that it is "missing" or that there is some Satanic conspiracy going on. Or else you have to make the same conclusions about the KJV if you want to avoid a double standard, something the Lord calls an "abomination" (Prov 20:10,23).

 

Ransom, what it is about people like you that favor truth over sensationalism? Don't you know that the way to persuade the multitudes is to set aside certain facts and then make an emotional appeal. You will have to practice that.

 

I agree, as do even the translators of the KJV. They have a marginal note on "confusion" in this verse, to indicate the sense is "tumult", not someone's personal uncertainty because they don't better understand an issue. If the 1611 supporters actually read a *1611*, they would know this.

 

The Greek words for "in His blood" are only in
mss copied at later dates.

 

Wow! I've never been called a liberal before.

I'm curious BrainT, how would those verses read?

 

How do I apply for admission to the Ransomian School for Logical Studies.

I want to be a Ransomniac!

 

I am with Siegfried on this.

Ransom, can we confer upon you an honorary doctorate?

 

Psa 145:13

(NIV) "Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and your dominion endures through all generations. The LORD is faithful to all his promises and loving toward all he has made."

(KJV) "Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations."

Acts 4:25

(NIV) "You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David: 'Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?"

(KJV) "Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?"

Jude 1:25

(NIV) "to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."

(KJV) "To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."

Phil 1:14

(NIV) "Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly."

(KJV) "And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear."

[ October 25, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

What manuscripts, they're gone. I wonder why they're gone. Maybe because a perfect Bible was written.

 

{ } 'What manuscripts?' The one we have, on which our translations are based; that's what manuscripts. You think a 'perfect' version came along to replace the imperfect. I don''t.

[ October 27, 2002, 01:34 AM: Message edited by: ChristianCynic ]

 

From the KJV translator's Prologue :
THE TRANSLATORS TO THE READER Preface to the King James Version 1611

HankD

 

BriantT quoting: Jude 1:25

(NIV) "to the only God our Savior
be glory, majesty, power and authority,
through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages,
now and forevermore! Amen."

(KJV) "To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever. Amen."

Ed quoting Jude 1:25

(KJV1611) "To the onely wise God our Sauiour,
be glory and maiestie, dominion
and power, now and euer. Amen."

(KJV1873) "to the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion
and power, both now and ever. Amen."