Question about Judging and a saying?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by "Lil" Possum Preacher man, Jul 2, 2015.

  1. "Lil" Possum Preacher man

    "Lil" Possum Preacher man
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    Okay I have had a problem lately I guess with judging and Would like some help. Could someone could answer my questions.

    (1) Is the saying "Love the Sinner , hate the sin" Biblical? And if so how would it work?

    (2) What does Jesus mean in Matthew 7:1-5 and Luke 6:37-42? Right now after my reading this morning am of the persuasion that Jesus is talking about not Condemning[but you still call out sin as sin and a saying I found in a commentary helps " council them, help them, but do not condemn them" it's Dr John Gill's commentary] and hypocritical judgement.

    please help me. Thanks in advance.-PPM
     
  2. JonC

    JonC
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    As far as I know, the Bible never makes that distinction (it does not separate sin from sinners, per se). My suggestion is to think more of Sin. The problem is man's sinfulness, not individual sins. When it comes to people, we are never told to hate them. In fact, we are never told to seek out and confront the sins of the world. Instead we are to share the gospel with a world that is already condemned.

    I think that you are on the right track regarding hypocritical judgment. Jesus continues and tells us to, finally, help our brother with that speck.

    Maybe this will help:

    1 Corinthians 5:11-13
    11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
    12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
    13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    Our primary focus should be on ourselves, examining ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and striving to correct our shortcomings, such as judging others.

    First lets consider our observations concerning a lost, unsaved person. Does pointing out that their behaviors (drinking, swindling, you name it) help them make peace with God? No amount of whitewash will change their status from unsaved to saved. So social action is based on protection, and it is ok to vote for laws that say do not steal or murder.
    But such actions are not our primary focus.

    Now within the church dealing with professing Christians, we are to rebuke and instruct in love. And we are not to tolerate false teachers who secretly introduce destructive heresies.

    Bottom line, we are to compare ourselves to Christ and not to the guy in the next pew. It is the log in our eye that is our primary focus, not the speck elsewhere.
     
  4. Van

    Van
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    How about love both saints and sinners, but hate the sin in our own lives? Now that is biblical!!
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    Take a look at Jesus who was accused of hanging out with sinners and rightly so.

    The problem Jesus addressed was the hypocritical nature of the condemnation of the pharisees condemnation. Their judgment was often harsh, rash, overzealous, and hasty.
     
  6. "Lil" Possum Preacher man

    "Lil" Possum Preacher man
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    Thank y'all for your advise so far :)
     
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Jesus said at the beginning of that great sermon that our righteousness had to be greater than that of the Pharisees. Why? He goes on after the Beatitudes to undo the erroneous and hypocritical way that the Pharisees had interpreted part of the 10 commandments and other parts of the Law.

    Jesus was trying to get us to understand the hypocrisy in inappropriate judging of others. We can certainly test the actions of others and ourselves. Jesus wasn't saying to give approval to anyone and any lifestyle or life's decision. He was saying that however we judge others - it's going to come back to us.

    I like this list by David Guzik as to what makes judgment of others hypocritical and given with ungodly harshness. And I have been guilty of judging wrongly and violating every single thing on this list.

    Judgment is ungodly when:

     
  8. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql
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    I'm a bit perplexed as to what God's Word is saying in reference to the "love the sinner; hate the sin" concept when it comes to this passage:

    4For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
    5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight; thou hatest all workers [NOTE: Not works] of iniquity. (Psalm 5:4-5, emphasis mine)

    Seems to me that this passage in God's Word is telling me that God not only hates sin, but also the sinner him/her self.

    I'm no theologian or much of a Bible scholar, but I was taught that "God's Word says what it means, and means what it says!!"

    So, what does God's Word SAY, and what does God's Word MEAN here?

    Thanks in advance for helping me solve this apparent dilemma.
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    So on the one hand we have God demonstrated His love toward us while we were still sinners... and on the other hand God hates all workers of iniquity. If God's word means what it says, God both hates sinners and loves sinners at the same time.

    Now some may say God cannot do both simultaneously, but will come up short to explain why not.

    God gave His Son for all mankind, and Christ tasted death for everyone, so it seems God can express or demonstrate His sacrificial love for all of us while simultaneously hating us for the sin we commit.

    Note that His word only uses phileo, affectionate love, for those in a relationship with God, i.e. family and friends. But sacrificial love (agapeo) transcends our hateful character.
     
  10. wpe3bql

    wpe3bql
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    Van:

    I guess it boils down to how a person defines "all" in a given context.

    I've heard the saying, "All" means "All" but what exactly does "all" mean?

    EXAMPLE: Matthew 3:5-8 refers to John the Baptist's ministry---"Then went out to him [JtheB] Jerusalem, and ALL Judea, and ALL the region round about Jordan, and were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he [JtheB] saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, 'O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

    Obviously "all" in Mt. 3:5 would not have included the unrepentant, fruitless Pharisees and Sadducees even though 3:5 states that "all" Judea and the region round about Jordan went out to listen to John the Baptist and subsequently were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

    What then does "all" mean in Mt. 3:5? Possibly it doesn't mean "all without exception" but rather "all without distinction."

    We often use the word "all" in everyday speech.

    Let's say a mugger comes up to you and demands you hand over your wallet, "or else." Not wanting to find out what that "or else" means, you comply with his request.

    Later, when you arrive at home and your wife and children see you in a very shaken condition and ask, "What happened to you?" you tell them that this mugger robbed you of ALL your money!!!

    ALL your money? Does that mean he robbed you of the money you had stored away in your safe? In your safety deposit box in your bank? Or that couple dollars you have lying on top of your bedroom dresser?

    I think not.

    Just like any other expression and/or passage one may come across in the Bible, you'd do well to study out that "all" in its context, and what other Bible passages that may have some bearing on the situation(s) about which this "all" is found.

    Right? :thumbsup:
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    If not right, pretty close to right!

    The Greek word "pas" (Strong's G3956) means all of the group in view. Thus all the marbles refers to the marbles in the circle, and not all the marbles on earth. "Pas" is also used to refer to the individual members of a group, thus every marble in the circle.

    One difficulty is when it is used of an area, i.e. all the world is going after him. Or all Judea. Here the idea is not everyone, but folks from "all over" the area, and is also used with a touch of hyperbole, with "all the world" overstating a large group.

    I do not think we can soundly say God does not hate all sinners by slicing and dicing "all."
     
  12. "Lil" Possum Preacher man

    "Lil" Possum Preacher man
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    I think after some thought I think I have come to a point. In judging I think you give the "benefit-of-the-doubt" .
     

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