Question about RW's prayer

I agree. There is no biblical support for believing people in heaven can see us (or care to see us, for that matter). Why do I say this? Because the topic has come up before and so far, no credible scripture supports that view. It seems some people badly want to believe this - for whatever reason - and read meaning into verses that is not there.

The martrys were not aware of things on earth but of what God had done/not done in/from heaven.

The rich man being aware of Lazarus is not being aware of anyone on earth since Lazarus was not on earth.

Also, some claim this is a parable and we can't take everything in it too far (that is a topic for another thread, I guess!).

 

The part that bothers me about this part of the prayer is misusing the "cloud of witnesses" from scripture and assuming that anyone in heaven would be cheering that Obama (or anyone) is president.

 

:laugh:

:laugh: Maybe he was referring to all those in the F-16's who were in the 1st heaven who could see everything going on?

 

That doesn't fly. I know when you disagree, you state "it doesn't say that" and move on. It doesn't make sense they knew their deaths weren't avenged solely due to them being in Heaven. They asked "how long", they had a sense of time, and the answer also had a sense of time "wait". They had knowledge, and not because of their location. We don't become omniscient when we die.

I've maintained, and will continue to do so, that if something brings honor and glory to God, He will do it. If it brings Him honor and glory to allow a person in the intermediate Heaven to witness something on earth, it will happen.

Also, the rich man KNEW his brothers had not repented. If you have no knowledge of something, you can't maintain something truthful, yet he did just that by speaking of his brothers, which God acknowledged.

 

Speaking of Oprah ...

When she's making comments like those people becoming "angels in heaven" ... what religion does she subscribe to? I've always thought she was one of those self-help no-religion type of people.

C.J.

 

The rich man knew what he knew because in the story, it seems he had just died. Apparently, he had not forgotten his brothers.

The martyrs knowing their deaths have not been avenged is not sufficient for saying people in heaven can see what is going on earth. I answerd this on the other thread where this debate is going on.

 

I'm actually doing 2 workshops on Oprah and her spirituality (and the spirituality of some she promotes) on Jan. 31st at a Christian education convention in MD. I also was just on a radio show about this topic and have spoken on it before.

Oprah is a New Thought "Christian." That is, she is not really a Christian believer though she has either a Baptist or Methodist background. However, she became disenchanted by Christianity (can't go into details due to space and time) and eventually was influenced by a book by Eric Butterworth. Butterworth was a Unity minister (died 2003). If you know about Unity, this should tell you a lot. Oprah believes Christ came to show us how to reach Christ consciousness. This is a New Thought belief (particularly Unity) that is also part of the New Age and is what I used to believe.

 

My thoughts exactly!!

We have folks all over who "ga-ga, goo-goo" over anything RW says!! I wonder now how many millions who heard that prayer received it as true and not just as some sort of "expression" for the moment???

 

Someone mentioned Hebrews 12 earlier in this thread.