Question about Sovereignty and Free Will

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Nicholas25, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. Nicholas25

    Nicholas25
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    Hey guys, as a Bible teacher was I:

    1. Saved (1999) drew to repentance (2004) because God wanted me to teach his Word (Romans 8:28-according to his purpose)?

    2. Do I teach His Word only because my former pastor thought I had the ability to do a good job?

    3. Not saved to teach, but God purposed me to teach BECAUSE I AM SAVED, and if I wasn't saved or was out of fellowship with God, He would have someone else do the job? (of course He always has someone to do His work.)

    I have been studying Reformed Theology/Doctrines of Grace and election. I do not believe in predestination, but I am trying to figure the correct order of things. I have said before "that I appreciate the Lord allowing me to do His work," but as I have been studying sovereignty I began to wonder how this all happens. Thank you, and I pray the Lord's blessings according to His will on all of you. :)
     
    #1 Nicholas25, Dec 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2008
  2. canadyjd

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    I believe "free-will" is a very unfortunate term in that indicates freedom/neutrality from outside influences.

    Man does not have "free-will". We have human will that is subject to all sorts of outside influences and our own tendency to deception.

    I have noticed that your threads tend to center around yourself. I had a pastor once who gave me some very straight forward advice. I want to pass it on to you. Please take it with the same sort of Christian love my former pastor was showing to me.

    The sooner you realize it isn't all about you, the better you are going to do sorting out the will of God and understanding His word.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. TCGreek

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    A person is saved when they put their trust in Jesus to save them (Acts 16:31; Eph 2:8).

    Scripture is clear about that.

    So if you put your faith in Jesus to save you, then you're saved and sealed for eternity.
     
  4. StefanM

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    I'd say the closest answer is 1, but it's not completely on target.

    I don't think that God saved you only in order for you to teach his Word. God's purpose in saving you is more than mere preparation for ministry.
     
  5. Nicholas25

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    Before Christ transformed my life it was all about me. I loved myself. I was my own god because I lived according to my own desires and passions. For the last four years my life has been about Jesus. It's about working for Him and seeing and hearing about Him draw people to Himself. It's about the fact that what He has done for me, He can do for others because there is no respect of persons with God. I have a burning desire to study His Word and grow in my ability to help others better understand the Christian faith and the precious truths found in the Holy Scripture.
     
  6. LeBuick

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    Them be some shouting words Brother... AMEN :godisgood:
     
  7. Tom Butler

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    Wasn't it Jeremiah who was set apart before he was ever born. Paul said he was set apart as well.

    John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit inside his mother's womb.

    Now I doubt of that Isaiah went around saying, "I'm going to be a prophet when I grow up." We know Paul didn't, because he hated Christians But God called them to his service. Which means that whatever God planned for them, he planned from eternity.

    So the best answer to the OP is that God always intended for you to preach and teach, gifted you for the same, and in time called you to his service.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    But you were free to make the choice... God just knew what you would choose before you were even a twinkle in mom's eye.
     
  9. Me4Him

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    Jews don't believe in predestination by God's sovereign will,

    They teach that there are no "negative prophecies" that can't be changed by "obedience" to God.

    That is any "bad things" prophesied to occur can be averted by "obedient", going to hell is the most obvious.

    God, in his "foreknowledge" knew what was "going to occur" but never predestined by sovereign will that it "had to occur",

    This is why God can create a world in which he foreknew many would perish, but said it wasn't his will (predestine) for them too perish.

    A "negative prophecy" that "could have" been averted.

    Jer 25:4 And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.

    5 They said, Turn ye again now every one from his evil way, and from the evil of your doings, and dwell in the land that the LORD hath given unto you and to your fathers for ever and ever:

    6 And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt.

    7 Yet ye have not hearkened unto me, saith the LORD; that ye might provoke me to anger with the works of your hands to your own hurt.
     
  10. Tom Butler

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    Sure. But the result was the same, and was never going to be any different.
     
  11. superwoman8977

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    You know what I dont agree with that. If God knows everything then He knew that I would be going through the hell in my life that I am going through now with everything and He allowed it. Why? He has practically destroyed my kids because the security and love they had in the family they were in are gone. I have a son who used to be so on fire for God (he is 10 yrs old) now wont even go to church anymore. Wont even open his bible anymore. He loved his family, loved his friends and now he is like whats the point? And there are some days I feel the same way that He does. Its very frustrating. People tell me all the time that I am to grow from my experiences, and my question to them is grow how? going from 2 incomes to one and then losing my home, living in a town where I know no one and then having to scrimp and save to make it each week is so frustrating. There are times on this crazy walk where you arent given a choice you just have to go with it. Thats where I get so angry when I have to follow a path others have made because I have no way of changing it. I dont believe in predestination either but this stuff well you chose this...uhh no I didnt. If I would have known my life was going to go the way it has gone I wouldnt have fought to survive the cancer 5 yrs ago I would have let it lick me.
     
  12. canadyjd

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    I hope you are not blaming God for "practically destroying your kids". The promise of Jesus was not that our lives as Christians would be all health and wealth, as some proclaim. The promise of Jesus is that all who desire to live Godly lives in Christ Jesus will suffer persecutions.

    The promise of Jesus is that He will never leave nor forsake you, in bad times or good.

    2 Cor. 1:3-5 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort; (4) who comforts us in all our affliction so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God (5) For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ."

    We suffer, as Christ suffered. When we suffer, and God gives us comfort and strength to maintain and walk closer to Him, we can then offer that same kind of comfort to people who are going through similar trials.

    I don't know if this will help to relieve any of the frustration you are feeling, but I hope it will.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  13. Me4Him

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    Right now, Israel is looking at the USA as their "Supporter".."Savior", but the time is coming when there'll be no one but God to turn to,

    but even then God won't save them from "Great Tribulations" such as never been before or even their Bodies from death.

    But out of that chaos will emerge a remanant worthy of "eternal life".

    Each one of us have our own "tribulations", Family/financial/physical, but no matter how much the world troubles us, it can never take away that eternal life.

    It's discourging to continue to fight a battle that it seems like you're losing, but I've seen the works of some bear fruit years after they had died.

    Our tribulations, continuing in faith, is our best "witness" to others.

    After all, it's about "GOD", not "us".
     
  14. ReformedBaptist

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    On the theological note, to say "I don't believe in predestination" is to deny the Scripture itself. You and I (whoever you are) may understand predestination differently, but it is a biblically doctrine and cannot be denied without denying the Scripture itself.
     
  15. PeterM

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    ReformedBaptist has it right...


    1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
    To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:
    2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.​


    Spiritual Blessings in Christ

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
    11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (Eph 1:1-14)​

    We may disagree on how to define "predestination" or on how it works in God's plan, but to disregard it entirely is to deny the above passage.
     
    #15 PeterM, Dec 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2008
  16. LeBuick

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    I would love to address this but must run for a Bible Study. I wanted to mark this spot for my response...
     
  17. Nicholas25

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    Is there a possibility that God predestined some to be saved because of the work God had them to do for Him (Romans 8:28), but that everyone has an opportunity to be saved (John 3:16/2nd Peter 3:9)? I don't know if this would work though, because of verses such as Romans 2:11 which says For God shows no partiality (English Standard Version). This would mean that some were predestined to be saved because of work in a ministry, but others had to accept the convicting power of God or they would end up in hell. Any thoughts?
     
  18. StefanM

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    Biblically speaking, no.

    Additionally, would this not create the ultimate distinction between clergy and laity? Talk about a "special election!" The preachers would be chosen, and the rest would choose themselves!
     
  19. StefanM

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    It is doubtless that you are undergoing tremendous difficulties in your life, and I do not intend to demean your feelings in any way. I just lifted up a prayer for you and your family.

    That being said, personal circumstances do not define the attributes of God. God is sovereign, omniscient, and omnipotent.
     
  20. Nicholas25

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    Ok, how do we understand all the verses dealing in predestination and election if we do not hold to Reformed Theology?
     

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