Featured Question for Calvinists

Oh my brother. I appreciate all your time on whether or not man has freewill after the fall, but this wasn't the issue. I don't know how many times and how many different ways to say it :tonofbricks:

The issue was............

....well, I already said it probably six times. If we cannot stay on the issue then there will be no progress made by me restating it here again. Blessings!

 

I addressed the "whether free will imperils God's sovereignty issue". In order to address your question free will has to be defined, because the both of us mean different things wen we use the term. There is nothing else if my attempt is not being received. I guess we'll have to call it a day.

 

God had decreed that the fall would mean that ALL physically born afterwards would be found by Him to be "In Adam", and would have to take being spiirutally dead in their sins, to have been born in a sinners state...

God NEVER could offer to any person what he did to adam, as when Adam sinned and chose to do evil, he stood for all to be born after him...

ALL were corrupted with a fallen sinner syaye, so true free will choice no longer even an option at that time...

 

Does God HAVE to save any sinner?

Are we all due to have that be granted by him towards us, or can it be that he will have the freedom to chose as he wills, not as we will?

 

His argument is absolutely logical. If Adam's freewill before the fall did not usurp God's sovereignty, then neither would freewill for men after the fall.

You Calvinists constantly argue that man making a choice concerning life/death usurps God's sovereignty, but you absolutely contradict yourselves when it comes to Adam before the fall.

Denying this does not make it go away.

 

He gets it, and he's painted himself into a corner and he knows it. You are absolutely correct, if Adam's freewill before the fall did not usurp God's sovereignty, then neither would man's freewill usurp God's sovereignty after the fall.

He gets it.

 

You are wasting your time Steaver. He gets it, he knows exactly what you are saying, and he knows you are correct too. The Calvinist argument that freewill usurps God's sovereignty is BOGUS and he knows it. Calvinists admit Adam had freewill before the fall. If freewill usurps God's sovereignty, then God would not have been sovereign when Adam had freewill before the fall.

Your argument is solid and valid, and makes perfect logical sense.

And he knows it.

But don't hold your breath.

 

Adam xhose for all of us in his dedcision though, and we ALL have been found guilty, and are sinners, and the fall removed God being able to save any by just "their free will!"

 

Do you even know what you are talking about?

 

Slow down boy. With your very high post count --can't you take a little extra time to proof your posts before making a mad dash to make a point only you appreciate?

 

What....you do not understand this;
spiirutally syaye xhose dedcision Eschatrology
imminemt reuire thryu yalking yje suew

 

:laugh: Ahhhh yes, the gift of tongues our brother is ablest with, don't you think?:godisgood:

 

Do you? You do not believe in original sin but continue to promote semi-pelegainism in your self deceived lie that you believe that man lacks a sin nature and even babes from the womb lack such a nature. The bible is quite clear on this that all mankind is born into sin and are completely totally depraved and cannot choose God unless God first draws him John 6:44.

 

Yes...that has been his position from the onset. And that position would completely demolish Doctrines of Grace theology.

 

It sure would, wouldn't it? And that is the reason Calvinists NEED Original Sin to be true, not because they can prove it from scripture (they can't), but because it would prove Reformed doctrine to be total falsehood.

John does not understand stuff like that, but you do. :thumbs:

 

Excuse me??????? Do you understand what a rabbit is? Go chase one.

 

The curse of fat fingers and a small texting pad on smart phone!

 

Are we all born then with same nature as jesus had, an uncorrupted sinless state?

 

Brother John, I found this and think it might help you as you study this out further:

I hope this helps.

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/7718/Jonah.htm

 

Plus, Brother John, you can see Jonah used as an OT picture of Christ to come later on...


-- He was in the whale's belly 3 days and nights....
-- Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and nights...
-- Jonah fell asleep in the bottom of the ship...
-- Jesus fell asleep in the bottom of the ship...
-- Jonah had some people wake him afraid they would perish...
-- Jesus had some people wake Him afraid they would perish...
-- Jonah cried out, feeling like he was left alone...
-- Jesus cried out, feeling like He was left alone...


Now, Jonah did things that Jesus would have never did, but you can see Jonah as an OT picture of Christ. Jesus even referenced Jonah's whale experience as a sign of what would happen to Him...Matthew 12:40 and Luke 11:29...