Question for my SBC Brothers

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Whowillgo, May 28, 2008.

  1. Whowillgo

    Whowillgo
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    I ask this sincerely with no hidden agenda. I am an Independent Baptist Pastor although I was SBC for many years. I ask this since I have no resources to use. I have a dear SBC Pastor friend 79 years old that has been at the same SBC Spanish Baptist Church for 32 years. He has never taken a salary and has used what small amount of money that comes in to spread the word, maintain the building and support the Baptist Children's Home.
    His heart is breaking, he is telling me that the State Convention has stated that if he does not send in x amount of dollars to the Cooperative Program that the Church he pastors is not eligible to take part in any vote at the state or national level. He is adamant that this is true. Can someone help me out here. Thank you in advance for your responses.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    The primary purpose in the convention is missions. If the church is not funding that cause at all then then by definition the church cannot be part of the cooperative.
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    One of the sad truths in our convention today is the need by some to standardize the Cooperative giving from our autonomous churches. While there should be some level of giving to the CP (which I would suspect your dear friend has done for some time) it is highly dubious to standardize the percentage which a church should give from its budget or the actual dollar amount.

    In reality a church that gives $1 a year to the Cooperative Program can, and should, be able to be identified as Southern Baptist just as the church that give $1 million. This was the intent of the founders of our fine convention. Now it seems there are some who wish to develop some kind of denominational limitus test for involvement by way of how much (dollar or percentage) one gives to the Cooperative Program. I know of several states where faithful trustees have been removed from boards and students not supported at the SBC college because their church did not meet some percentage limitus test. It is sad to see our faithful convention steered this way. Unfortunately there are few suggestions right now for helping this outside of just continuing to give and let the blowhards get lightheaded at the end of the day. :)
     
  4. exscentric

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    When in Bible college I considered SBC churches a number of times and always asked the pastor if the SBC was not a denomination. They to a man said that it was not, and the basis of that answer was to a man - based on the fact that denominations require money be sent to them by the churches and that the SBC would NEVER do that to any church.

    Of course that was thirty years ago and things do change at times so I could not answer.

    On the other hand it would seem that this little church might be considered a mission church and given some assistance - but that is just my opinion.
     
  5. Salty

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    Several years ago, I was with Faith Bap in Coppers Cove, Tx. We contacted Galilean Bap missions to assist us with a pastor. The pastor came as a missionary with full support - as we were very small. The policy of GBM was that the church would send 10% of its income to GBM.

    Even though we were small, we were still able to support missions.

    At Twin Cities Bap in Winston-Salem, NC; our Sunday School teacher told us he believed that when a church starts a building program, it should also increase its missions.

    The Bible teaches us we are to be witnesses in Jerusalem, Judah and the uttermost parts of the earth.

    I believe that ever church should support mission, local, national, and foreign, no matter how small your church is.
    And our current church is very small.
     
  6. nodak

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    My understanding is that NM requires "x" amount of dollars.

    It used, I believe, to require "x" percentage of budget. (May be wrong here.)

    But the sad truth here is that it is a very rural state. Some churches are barely able to maintain as is. They may not have "x" ($250??) to send without closing the door.

    It is part and parcel of, I believe, another power grab from Alb. (state offices.)

    Also, and I may be wrong here, but friends in NM tell me that many of those small churches have loans through the state convention. If you do not qualify for seating delegates your building may be taken by the state convention and sold even if your payments are up to date.

    There are some in leadership in Alb. that I THINK are really into the mega church idea, wanting each region to have just one large church rather than several small ones. And some are very cutthroat about any one who does not jump when they holler froggie.

    All in all, if I ever move back to NM and the convention there is under current leadership, I will not join a SBC that is part of the state convention.
     
  7. Tom Bryant

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    Check to see if money given to the children's home will not count towards the amount. How long has it been since he has given to the CP? Why isn't any money given?

    NOT trying to bash the Pastor in question, so this isn't aimed at him. The SBC was founded to support missions (home and abroad) and theological education. If a church hasn't given towards the way that the convention funds those purposes why would they expect to have a say in the convention?
     
  8. SaggyWoman

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    Have they put any money into the Annuity board/Guidestone, even if it was only a dollar at a time? Might check into help from them.
     
  9. Allan

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    It is still true in some conventions.

    One of the reason conventions are trying to enforce this is because many churches want to be apart of the SBC for finacial help, resourses, and man power but at the same time are neglegent in their resposible duties for financial contributions back the SBC. So the conventions are trying to hedge the gap resulting from this. Churches are more concerned anymore about how much they save anymore for those "rainy-days" than giving sacrificially and watching God provide for their needs and they provide for others.

    I agree that 'some' conventions are going a bit over-board. However just because a church is a state does not mean they have to be apart of that specific state convention. They can appeal to neighboring states if their convention isn't understanding of any needs they have and compassionate. But I must ask, was this pastor ever or consistantly giving to the cooperative program (even just a $1 if that is all they could spare).

    I believe as a Convention down to it's state levels we need to clean house of many non-supportive churches and this is refering to their ability to provide such support.
     
    #9 Allan, May 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2008
  10. Whowillgo

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    Thanks again for the responses so far. I do not agree with some but I am not in the SBC so that is not my business. I will say that in 32 years of Pastoring, he has led many to the Lord that were and still are unable to provide more than a few dollars a week to the church. The majority of his congregation are very poor Spanish speaking people who have imigrated to the US. I know he has housed many a young missionary and young preacher in his home. In response to one post I really do not believe that he has a desire to vote only a desire to be a part of what he has helped build through souls if not through money. He has been a Pastor for the SBC longer than anyone connected to the board or longer than most SBC pastors in the state.
    Again thank you, I will see if he has any prior contributions but my understanding from him is that this is based on this years annual report.
     
  11. JustChristian

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    It sounds to me like this man's church might BE a mission itself and needs funding rather than a requirement to give money these poor folks can't afford.
     
  12. donnA

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    In that case he needs to apply for funding, they have no way of knowing unless he does.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    What is the minimum they want. In the Florida convention it is 250.00 for the year.
     
  14. EdSutton

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    The state convention may or may not be trying to 'dictate' something, but the SBC Constitution states this:
    As another has said, any "bona fide" amount contributed "to the Convention's work", in the previous fiscal year should suffice, at least IMO, as I read this, for at least one messenger. Additional messengers from that church are determined by numbers or giving, up to a maximum of 10.

    Ed
     
  15. EdSutton

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    Just re-read the OP. Supporting the Baptist Children's home should qualify, if it is 'SBC affiliated', and should the amount exceed $250, additional messenger(s) would seem to be indicated.

    There is no requirement that any dollars have to go through the Co-operative Program, for every dime can be 'designated', to So. Baptist causes, and it is still "So. Baptist work". The SBC and the State Conventions are independent in their own spheres.

    A church does not even have to be a 'member' of any 'state' convention, and/or local association to be a part of the SBC, for that matter, and in fact, a very small number do not belong to any state convention, and/or local association.

    My own church does not belong to any 'local association', but does belong to both the KBC and SBC, all of which are "independent in their own spheres".

    Ed
     
    #15 EdSutton, May 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2008
  16. Allan

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    I would also agree here, which bring into issue special circumstances and fundings to help him.
     
    #16 Allan, May 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2008
  17. Whowillgo

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    I believe it is $250.00. As I said in the post I was an SBC Pastor for many years and my Dad was an SBC Pastor so I have some feel for the issue but was kind of blind-sided when he came to me about the requirement. I agree that the cooperative program is established for a very real need and those churches within the convention should support it I also believe that he could probably request help as a missions church and get support but he feels the money should go to others in greater need as he has been at the church 32 years I imagine he feels that God will keep on providing. Again thank you for the suggestions, I have told him that he needs to go and sit down with the State Convention officers and lay it on the line. I seriously considered paying the $250.00 for him but he is over 20 years older than I am and how would I explain it when he whipped me.
     
  18. Jerome

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    Baptists in New Mexico approve largest-ever budget
    Associated Baptist Press
    By John Loudat
    November 2, 2007

    ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (ABP) -- Baptists in New Mexico approved the largest budget in convention history Oct. 24, which will require a substantial increase of Cooperative Program receipts from area churches. . .
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    It really bothers me when being bonded in Christ comes down to money. Glad I don't have to worry about that.

    Act 3:6Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

    We live by a "love offering". No one has to give a dime.


    BBob,
     
    #19 Brother Bob, May 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2008
  20. donnA

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    If the conventions purpose is missions, it only makes sence you have to contribute to missions to be a part of the convention. On the other hand if you don't want to give money to missions, then don't.
     

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