Question for post-trib'ers

What is interesting here is that most
pretribualtion rapturists believe there will
be a rapture and it's accompaning
resurrection at the end of the Tribulaition
Period Judgement. The Posties are in fact
Post-tribulation ONLY rapturists.

If the pretribulation rapture took place
today among the probably 2,000 Million
nominal Christians on earth there would be,
what maybe 400 Million Raptured?

Say instead they go into Tribualtion Period
Judgement like the Posties say.
The only ones who will survive
saved the Jewish Israeli elect saints
protected probably in Petra will be
the ones the forces of Antichrist overlooked.
So maybe 20,000 get raptured at the
rapture/resurrection at the end of the
Tribulation period judgement.

Sorry, seems the pretribulation rapture is
the only one worth having.

----------------------
\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Five Resurrections
Found in the Holy Bible
Compared and Contrasted

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
Yisarel passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive

How to get on God's list:

Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved.


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 10 Jan 2004;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us or
by our understaning of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
of the unjust).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
cleary notes that the just are raised before
the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Lord be Praised!

Note that ressurrections #2 and #3 are accompanied
by a rapture of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque

 

Sorry to invade your space.
I thought i'd mention our type I postie
only visits here about every other week-end
(no, this isn't the week end ).
There are bunch of middie and prewrathites
around. The Type II posties should be
by any time now.

Type I postie - pre-millennial
Type II postie - a-millennial

Ed's quick quide:

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: <-- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <-- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

 

Rich_UK,

Simple, please look to Matt. 24:29-31 and 2 Thess. 2:1-3 talk about the timing of Christ's coming.

Later, I will type more details with verses to prove why I do believe Christ will come again after tribulation.

By the way, I have one question for you:

Please show me where ONE verse in the Bible saying Rapture will be occur 3 1/2 years or 7 years earlier BEFORE Christ's coming?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

I will when you show me just one verse that says the rapture will occur after the 7 year tribulation.

Hint - Scripture does not say. It is a matter of theology that one believes in pretrib or posttrib.

 

You are correct Richard.

 

DD,

I asked, show me where one verse in the Bible saying rapture will be occur 3 1/2 or 7 years earlier before the second advent.

Please read at 'Which Coming?' I given 46 lists of verses, telling me which Coming of the Lord is this one? His 2nd or His 3rd?

 

Richard,

Dan. 12:11-13 saying nothing about the coming seven year of tribulation period or caught up either. Dan. 12:11-13 speaks of Christ fulfilled it through Calvary, same with Dan. 9:24-27.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Most Non Premill Post tribers such as myself do not believe in a 7 year tribulation. My basic belief regarding all this is,

1. Jesus Christ is Coming
2. We Don't know when
3. Be Ready

 

Richard,

Daniel 12:11 says, "And the time that the daily sacrifice shall be TAKEN AWAY, and the abomination that maketh desolate set, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Jesus Christ is the one person who put the daily sacrifices to end by Calvary. He fulfilled the prophecies of the Old testament, include Dan. 9:24-27.

Christ said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days, I will raise it up." - John 2:19.

They were not understand what Christ was talking about. They told him, that building of temple was builted for 46 years, but three days - impossible. John 2:21 - Christ spoken of his body as temple, that he shall raise it up in three days - resurrection.

Christ already destroyed temple by Calvary. He said, "It is finished" - John 19:30. When after Christ yelled, and he gave up his soul, at the same time, the veil of the temple was tore down from top to bottom - Mark 15:37-38. It shows us, that God ended the daily sacrifices through calvary.

Jesus Christ allowed Romans destroyed the building of the temple in year 70 A.D. Christ does not need daily sacrifices and the bulding of the temple, because Christ is the temple.

Dan. 12:11 tells us, He shall put them to end after 1290 days. Shows that he fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament after his three years of his ministry.

How does I know Christ's ministry was over three years?

Jesus and his disciples observed passover feast three times - three years find in John 2:13; John 6:4; and 13:1.

Dan. 9:26-27 tell us, after 69th week, Christ was cut off by Calvary. He fulfilled Daniel 70th Week in the midst of the week by the Calvary. Christ ended the daily sacrifices, and He destroyed temple, by allowed Romans invaded Jerusalem in year 70 A.D.

Dan. 12:11-13 telling us, that Christ already ended the daily sacrifices by calvary after his three years of ministry.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Daniel chapter 12 is not in chronological order.

Dan. 12:1a speaks of future 3 1/2 great tribulation. Dan. 12:1b speaks of future general judgment day - the only ONE future judgement day. Dan. 12:2 speaks of future ONE resurrection both unjust and just refer to John 5:27-29. Dan. 12:3 speaks of righteosuness saints shall have eternal life. Dan. 12:3 halts speak about the end time. Dan. 12:4 tells us, the angel told Daniel to shut the book, no one understand the prophecy things, till the time shall come, as the world changing, as the technology increasing faster, and more people shall understand the prophecy about the end times.

Dan. 12:5-9, I believe it speaks about Messiah shall put our sins to end by calvary. Daniel, himself do not understand what these are talking about. I believe some of us are understanding now, these were fulfilled by make mansifest to us through Calvary to understand the mystery.

Dan. 12:10 speaks of two groups - 'wise' & 'wicked', many shall be purified and made WHITE, and tried. Halt for now. My understanding of verse 10 is not talking about future 3 1/2 years of tribulation period and the persecutions. I believe verse 10 speaks of individuals are commanded to be pured and be holy and to be sanctify from the world and wicked thing, also, we are testing through our faith to built our relationship with Christ to make us white and pure. The last part of verse 10 tell us, wicked shall continue do wicked things, none of wicked people understand, but the wise shall understand. My understanding of verse 10 speak of people who are natural man of 1 Cor. 2:14, do not understand God's things, because they do not want to know the truth, and remain in their wicked ways. But, we are wise and received God's Word, He gave us wisdom and understand the spiritual things - 1 Cor. 1:30; 2:12.

How shall we understand of God's thing - Dan. 12:5-7? Dan. 12:11-13 shows us, that it already fulfilled through Calvary, so, we can understand the mystery of God. - Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 3:9-10; and Colossians 1:26-27. Dan. 12:11-13 is very obivously refer to Dan. 9:24-27 speak about Calvary.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

i argee with deafposttrib amem preach it. daniel 9 chatper is speaking messiah is on the cross. dainel 12:1-3 is speaking of ressurecction/judgment daniel 12:4-13 is speaking of the end time. daniel 7:19-26 is speaking of antichrist. i urge everyone read daniel help you more better understand what daniel is talking about.

brumleyj
ps27:1
amem

 

opps im mistanding of dainel 7:19-26 let me make clear it to you.

dainel 7:26 speaking of antichrist shall regina d persecute aganist saints, Daniel 7:25 the saints shall take away, antichrist regina nd they shall victory over anitchrist in the great tribulation.

dainel 7:27 saints will victory at end of the tribualtion and will regin with christ for everlasting kindgom, who these saints serve and obey him.

daniel 7:9-10 is speaking of great white judgment

dainel 9:24-27 is speaking messiah is on calvery.

forigve me for mistanding of daniel 9 and 7.

brumleyj
ps27:1

 

I see great pretrib reluctance to
even acknowledge that these questions were
asked.

 

we all agree on Matt 24:36,42 tell us, no person knows what day and hour when Christ comes, only God, the Father knows. Matt 24:36,42 does not make pretrib proof.

Early Christians were expecting Christ might come anytime in their lifetime, but it does not make them pretrib. Because they never hear of two phases of the second advent. It was not yet exist till 19th Century. Even, they believed that they will have to face persecutions and Antichrist first before Christ comes. Also, they believed the only one future coming of Christ.

Matt 24:36,42 context with verse 29-31 tell us, Christ shall come after the tribulaiton, but we do not know when Christ shall come. We can do is be watch and be ready all the times - Rev. 3:2.

We do not know when we will die - heart attack, car accident, shot, etc.. we must always be prepared for to face the judgement day all the time, not know when we die, or Lord comes. We must always be ready all the time.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

DeafPosttrib: "it does not make them pretrib. Because they never hear of two phases of the second advent. It was not yet exist till 19th Century."

Actually, the two phases of the second coming
is described in the Holy Scripture.

7 each 360 day years are 2520 days.
2520 is the smallest number which can
be divided evenly by all one digit
numbers.

1 x 2520 = 2520
2 x 1260 = 2520
3 x 840 = 2520
4 x 630 = 2520
5 x 504 = 2520
6 x 420 = 2520
7 x 360 = 2520
8 x 315 = 2520
9 x 280 = 2520