Question for the scholars

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by kyredneck, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    273
    I rejoice at thy word, As one that findeth great spoil. Ps 119:162

    At the time David penned this, what constituted 'thy word'. What scriptures did David actually have to rejoice in?
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think he was referring to the Law. He says many times in the Psalms that He loved God's Law and meditated on it day and night.


    But I'm no scholar, just an ignorant member of the laity. What do I know?
     
  3. BobinKy

    BobinKy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do not think you will get much agreement on this topic. Nor do I think you will get a lot of takers to the question. However, being a retired businessman with no church career at stake--and very little learning too boot--I will have a go at your question.

    . . .

    I checked my current inventory of Bibles and resources for timelines. Most timelines list approximate dates for events, not approximate writing dates of books of the Bible. Of course, many Bibles and biblical resources provide some sort of approximate writing date in the introductions. However, that is more research than I want to get into on this snowy morning in Kentucky.

    Nevertheless, despite my laziness, I did find one chart labeled "The Progress of Revelation" listed in the first The MacArthur Study Bible, NKJV (Word Publishing, 1997, p. xxxi).

    The next sticky wicket comes with ascribing the above quote in Ps 119:162 to David himself, and dating that quote. I will take the easy way and say David wrote the above quote himself at some time prior to his death. For David's death date (for purposes of this thread), I will accept the date (970 B.C.) listed in the "Old Testament Chronology" printed at the beginning of The NIV Study Bible (Zondervan, 1985).

    Now for MacArthur's Revelation Chart. Here are the entries with approximate writing dates prior to David's Death (970 B.C).

    .......Book......................Appoximate.........Author
    ....................................Writing Date

    1.....Job.........................Unknown............Anonymous
    2.....Genesis...................1445-1405 BC.....Moses
    3.....Exodus....................1445-1405 BC.....Moses
    4.....Leviticus..................1445-1405 BC.....Moses
    5.....Numbers..................1445-1405 BC.....Moses
    6.....Deuteronomy............1445-1405 BC.....Moses
    7.....Psalms.....................1445-450 BC.......Multiple Authors
    8.....Joshua.....................1405-1385 BC.....Joshua
    9.....Judges..................ca 1043 BC............Samuel
    10...Ruth.....................ca 1030-1010 BC.....Samuel (?)
    11...Song of Solomon.......971-965 BC.........Solomon
    12...Proverbs...................971-686 BC.........Solomon primarily​

    Therefore, one answer to your question is, for David "thy word" included the complete books of Job, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, and Ruth; with a portion of the book of Psalms; and possibly the Song of Solomon and a portion of the Proverbs.

    I am sure our resident scholars will debate every one of the above dates (and possibly with some good cause). However, true to his fashion, MacArthur provides a single concise answer to a thorny question that may have many answers.


    ...Bob
     
    #3 BobinKy, Dec 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2010
  4. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bob, that's what I meant by the Law. I think David is referring to the books of Moses mainly.
     
  5. glfredrick

    glfredrick
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    4,996
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree to the Pentateuch, Judges, Ruth (whom he would have known of personally) and some of the Proverbs and Psalms.

    There is also some hint that there were other books that did not make it into the official canon of Scripture that detailed the history of Israel and Israel's kings, their actions, etc., that David may have had in his possession. Those may have been used to formulate actual canonical books by their writers/editors.
     
  6. BobinKy

    BobinKy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    This brings up another question: Did David consider the Psalms he put down and sang to be "thy word"?

    ...Bob
     
    #6 BobinKy, Dec 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2010
  7. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    Well, Bob, JESUS said David was a prophet...
     
  8. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    3
    Why assume that "thy word" means written words? They received most of their instructions from God through prophets speaking to them (and oral transmission). Of course, there was also visions, dreams, etc.
     
  9. Joseph M. Smith

    Joseph M. Smith
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Davidic authorship of the psalms is not what mainstream Old Testament scholarship thinks any longer. Authors like Mowinckel and Bruggemann see them as the product of the Temple priesthood and the corps of musicians that supported Temple worship. Some do think that Psalms like 23 and 51 may very well be Davidic ... but not much else.
     
  10. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have no serious problems with the dates suggested for the completion of particular books. Yes, there may have been as many as a dozen of our canonical books in existance in David's lifetime. However, it is another thing altogeher to assert that David possessed all these books and recognized them all as inspired Scripture.

    Certainly, David would have revered the Torah. Would he have felt the same for the other books? Maybe some. Which ones? We don't know. David would have had much respect for Samuel, yet Samuel likely wrote other things besides the portions that eventually were accepted into the canon. Could David have known the difference? I'm not sure that David and the Hebrew people had been given enough time to analyze these later books in order to declare them Scripture.
     
    #10 franklinmonroe, Dec 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2010
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    The only record we have of NON-writing prophets is what is recorded in the Bible. Think of Elijah/Elisha as good examples.

    Everything else that we have is in WRITTEN form. David in 1000 BCE had the Torah and a few other historical books. This was the "Word" of God for him.

    It is a good study to look at the allusions to Torah in the Psalms. The "worship" (Psalms is considered worship/poetry as contrasted to didactic prose like Torah) was based in the clear truth of "doctrine".

    I like that.
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    273
    Thanks to everyone for commenting. David had what scriptures I generally expected he would, although it would surprise me if he had Song of Solomon or Proverbs of Solomon.

    The point is he only had a fraction of what we have; it was incomplete and lacking the fulfillment/revelation of the NT, and yet he and others derived great joy and delight from meditating in the law. I find that amazing. It actually reinforces my belief in the indwelling of the Spirit within the OT Saints. IMO, the Spirit HAD to be the source of the joy.

    ...or John the Baptist/Jesus Christ.

    It SOUNDS written, like in the 119th there is thy law, thy word, thy commandments, thy statutes, thy precepts, thine ordinances, thy testimonies, thy ways.
     
    #12 kyredneck, Dec 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2010

Share This Page

Loading...