Question for users of the KJV

First of all you forget the footprints to the KJV and I'm sure Doc Cas knows whereof I speak. KJV roots run deep and the various other sources they come from. Take away the KJV and you wouldn't harm my studying at all!... I truley believe in the KJV and all its ancestors... Brother Tony, Doc Cas is giving classes on translations up to and including the KJV... You can sign up now where you can learn of the Wycliffite Bible 1384... The Coverdale Bible 1535... Matthews Bible 1537... The Great Bible 1539... The Geneva Bible 1560... The Bishops Bible 1568 and The Douai Old Testament 1609 just a few of the ancestors of the KJV... Brother Glen

[ August 24, 2002, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

I would use the KJV until a translation in modern language was available. There is no need to make people think that God doesn't speak their language.

 

I too am a former KJV only. [Insert jumping up and down smiley face here!] I thank the Lord he led me out of that mess. I guess one of my regrets is that I never learned the Greek language.

 

I find this troubling. Many of you would rather have no Scripture at all if you cannot have the KJV? You would rather go through life without God's Word if it didn't say KJV on it?

I have good friends who are KJV-onlyers who even wouldn't say that...

Does anyone else find this troubling?

 

The canon was 'closed' 1500+ years before the KJV, and at that time the English language did not exist in any form we could decipher as English. So if that was the time "that which is perfect" came, the KJV is a millenium and a half late. And this rubbish that the KJV "corrects" the original Greek and Hebrew also contradicts "that which is perfect" as the completion of the canon.

Oh, and btw, you would have a fight on your hands if ya tried to take my Bible!

So if someone demanded your Bible from you, you would defy Matthew 5:42, as well as Matthew 5:39?

[ August 25, 2002, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: ChristianCynic ]

 

Oh, get off your sanctimonious high horse, will ya?

You asked a question; you got some answers. While perusing the thread, it occurred to me the opposite might be true. In fact, you did have at least one person admit that they would only use the KJV until a modern version was re-accomplished. As venomous as you seem to be towards those that say they would only use the KJV--and without asking why, I might add--I dare say you might answer the same way.

Apparently, this "worship" of a version that you're espousing goes both ways, whether we're willing to admit it or not.

 

Hey, Doc Cassidy--I was quite aware of the Wycliffe bible and the Great Bible as precursers to the KJV.

But what I'm unaware of, and haven't been able to find in my own research, is how many English versions were created between the 1611 and late 1800's? (not necessarily including the revisions to the KJV, but it might be nice to see the time frames on those as well)

 

That was me. It was a simple question, and I gave a simple answer: if there was only one translation available, I would use it whether it was the KJV, the NIV, etc. I would use anything to share the gospel!!! I must admit that I totally don't understand those KJV-O folk who answered "no" to the original question - they would rather have no Bible, and rather not show the gospel to others, than read another version?!? This is incredibly telling about the KJV-O position, and also incredibly sad. It reveals the self-centered, egotistical approach many KJV-Os have towards the issue. Christ said "go preach the gospel", and they would say "No, not unless I have a particular 17th century English translation". It implies that God cannot work through anything else, that the Holy Spirit's leading is mysteriously snuffed out because the wrong "magic formula" is not in place first. I have been discussing KJV-Onlyism for several years, and the answers in this thread reminded me of how dangerous the view really is. The "no" answers on this thread make me very upset and discouraged.

The book "Defending the King James Bible" by DA Waite has a list in one of the appendicies that is fairly comprehensive. It lists dozens and dozens of English translations before the 1800s. It also lists the KJV as the 17th complete English translation (at one time, the KJV was a "modern version" that was opposed to by those who thought it redundant and demeaning to produce yet another translation, when they already had their Bible of choice... so be thankful the KJV translators didn't hold the same view of scripture that you do, or you wouldn't even have the KJV in the first place...)

 

Brian, I'd like to see a list of those "dozens and dozens." The research I've conducted shows the 1611 KJV (with revisions up to 1679), and then the next English version in 1881.

 

This is amazing. Apperently we have some here on the BB who has memorized every Word of the King James version of the Bible. (Matt. 4:4)
They don't need a copy of another translation, its all recorded on their heart.

 

Well, I've told you where this list of dozens and dozens is, so you *could* see it.

But I found the lists on the net after about 40 seconds of searching. Here it is, I'll stop the lists before 1881. These lists contains 54 complete Bibles dated between 1611-1881 (exclusive), and 100 New Testaments dated from the same time range. Note also that these lists do not include "Abridged" versions:

=====

II. A CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF COMPLETE ENGLISH BIBLES (604 YEARS, 1388--1991)

The list will be as brief as possible, giving only the date (if known), the author or editor (if known), and usually a short title.

1. UNDATED, Timothy Priestly, The New Evangelical Family Bible Paraphrased.

2. 1388, John Wycliffe, The Holy Bible.

3. 1388, John Purvey, The Holy Bible.

4. 1390, Nicholas de Hereford, The Holy Bible.

5. 1535, Myles Coverdale, Biblia.

6. 1537, Thomas Matthews, The Byble.

7. 1537, James Nycolson, Biblia, The Bible.

8. 1539, The Great Bible (Cranmer's Bible), The Byble In Englyshe.

9. 1539, Richard Taverner, The Most Sacred Bible.

10. 1549, Anonymous, The Byble.

11. 1549, Anonymous, The Byble (a second Bible by the same name and date).

12. 1553, Richard Jugge, The Whole Bible.

13. 1560, Geneva Version, The Bible And Holy Scriptvres.

14. 1568, Bishops' Bible, The Holie Bible.

15. 1599, Geneva-Tomson-Junius Bible, The Bible.

16. 1609, Douay-Rheims Version, The New And Old Testaments.

17. 1611, Authorised Version, The Holy Bible.

Special Editions Of The Authorised Version came out as follows: 1613, 1616, 1617, 1618, 1629, 1630, 1633, 1634, 1637, 1638, 1640, 1642, 1653, 1659, 1675, 1679, 1833,1896, 1904.

Curious Editions Of The Authorised Version came out as follows:

(1) 1611, Great "He" Bible, (Ruth 3:15, "and he went into the city.")

(2) 1611, Great "She" Bible, (Ruth 3:15), "and she went into the city.")

(3) 1611, "Judas" Bible, (Mat. 26:36, "Judas" for "Jesus.")

(4) 1631, "Wicked" Bible, (Ex. 20:14, omits the "not.")

(5) 1638, "Forgotten Sins" Bible, (Luke 7:47).

(6) 1641, "More Sea" Bible, (Rev. 21:1, "There was more sea.")

(7) 1653, "Unrighteous" or Field's Bible, (1 Cor. 6:9, "unrighteous shall inherit.")

(8) 1702, "Printers" Bible, (Ps. 119:161, "Printers have persecuted.")

(9) 1711, "Profit" Bible, (Isa. 57:12, "shall profit" instead of "shall not profit.")

(10) 1716, "Sin On" Bible, (John 5:14, "sin on more" for "sin no more.")

(11) 1717, "Vinegar" Bible, (Luke 20, "parable of the Vinegar" instead of "Vineyard."

(12) 1746, "Sting" Bible, (Mark 7:37, "sting of his tongue" not "string."

(13) 1792, "Denial" Bible, (Lk. 22:34, Philip denies Jesus instead of Peter.

(14) 1801, "Murderers" Bible, (Jude 1:16, "murderers" used instead of "murmurers."

(15) 1802, "Discharge" Bible, (1 Tim. 5:21, "I discharge" instead of "I charge."

(16) 1804, "Lions" Bible, (1 Kings 7:19, "out of thy lions" instead of "loins."

(17) 1805, "To-Remain" Bible, (Gal. 4:29, "to remain" inserted instead of a comma.

(18) 1806, "Standing Fishes" Bible, (Ezek. 47:10, "the fishes shall stand" instead of "fishers."

(19) 1807, "Ears to ear" Bible, (Mat. 13:43, "ears to ear" instead of "to hear."

(20) 1810, "Wife-Hater" Bible, (Lk. 14:26, "hate not . . . and his own wife" instead of "life.")

(21) 1823, "Camels" Bible, (Gen. 24:61, "Rebekah arose, and her camels" instead of "damsels."

(22) 1829, "Large Family" Bible, (Isa. 66:9, "not cease to bring to birth" instead of "not cause to bring forth."

(23) undated, "Fool" Bible, Psalm 14:1, "The fool hath said in his heart there is a God" instead of "there is no God."

18. 1629, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

19. 1638, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

20. 1657, Theodore Haak, The Dutch Annotations Upon The Whole Bible.

21. 1709, Edward Wells, An Help For The More Easy And Clear Understanding Of The Bible.

22. 1715, Anonymous, Bible With Annotations.

23. 1718, Edward Wells, The Common Translation Corrected.

24. 1724, B. Harris, The Holy Bible . . . Done Into Verse.

25. 1749, Richard Challoner, The Holy Bible.

26. 1762, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

27. 1764, Anthony Purver, A New And Literal Translation.

28. 1766, Anonymous, The Universal Bible.

29. 1769, Benjamin Blayney, The Holy Bible.

30. 1773, Henry Southwell, The Universal Family Bible.

31. 1778, John Fellows, The Bible In Verse.

32. 1785, Clement Cruttwell, Editor, The Holy Bible.

33. 1786, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

34. 1791, H. Fitzpatrick, Douay-Rhemish Bible . . . Newly Revised.

35. 1791, Rev. Bernard MacMahon, The Holy Bible.

36. 1794, Joseph Butler, The Christian's New . . . Universal Family Bible.

37. 1799, Anonymous, A Revised Translation and Interpretation of The Sacred Scriptures.

38. 1800, John Kendall, The Holy Scriptures.

39. 1802, John Reeves, The Holy Bible.

40. 1808, Charles Thomson, The Holy Bible.

41. 1811, George Leo Haydock, The Holy Bible.

42. 1811, Thomas Haydock, The Holy Bible.

43. 1817, Benjamin Boothroyd, A New Family Bible.

44. 1818, John Bellamy, The Holy Bible.

45. 1822, Rev. Dr. Hamil, The Holy Bible.

46. 1825, Israel Alger, The Pronouncing Bible.

47. 1825, Daniel Murray, The Holy Bible.

48. 1833, Noah Webster, The Holy Bible.

49. 1834, George Townsend, The Holy Bible.

50. 1838, Dr. Denvir, Holy Bible.

51. 1841, J. T. Conquest, The Holy Bible.

52. 1842, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

53. 1844, Rev. T. J. Hussey, The Holy Bible.

54. 1847, Charles Roger, A Collation of the Sacred Scriptures.

55. 1848, American Bible Society, The Holy Bible.

56. 1848, James Nourse, The Holy Bible.

57. 1849, Francis Patrick Kenrick, The Holy Bible.

58. 1850, Alexander John Ellis, The Holy Bible.

59. 1850, Josiah Forshall and Sir Fredrick Madden, editors, The Holy Bible.

60. 1852, J. R. Bayley, Editor, The Holy Bible.

61. 1860, Leicester Ambrose Sawyer, The Holy Bible.

62. 1863, Robert Young, The Holy Bible.

63. 1864, Lange's Commentaries, The Scriptures.

64. 1867, Joseph Smith, Jr., Holy Scriptures.

65. 1869, Otis Clapp, The Word of the Lord.

66. 1870, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

67. 1870, Thomas Newberry, The Englishman's Bible.

68. 1871, Frederick Charles Cook, The Speaker's Commentary.

69. 1876, T. K. Cheyne and others, The Holy Bible.

70. 1876, Julia Evelina Smith, The Holy Bible.

71. 1877, Revised English Bible, Revised English Bible.

III. A CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF COMPLETE ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENTS (612 YEARS, 1380--1991)

The list will be as brief as possible, giving only the date (if known), the author or editor (if known), and usually a short title.

1. UNDATED, Anonymous, Classic Interlinear Translations, The Greek English New Testament.

2. UNDATED, Philip W. Comfort and Robert K. Brown, The New Greek-English Interlinear New Testament.

3. UNDATED, Cook, New Testament, Plain Translation By A Student.

4. UNDATED, Robert Gordon, New Testament.

5. UNDATED, Samuel P. Linn, editor, The New Testament.

6. UNDATED, Luther A. Weigle, editor, The New Testament Octapla.

7. 1380, John Wycliffe, The New Testament.

8. 1525, William Tyndale, The New Testament. At Worms.

9. 1525, William Tyndale, The New Testament. At Cologne.

10. 1534, George Joye, The New Testament.

11. 1534, William Tyndale, The Newe Testament. At Antwerp.

12. 1535, George Joye, The New Testament In Tyndale's Version.

13. 1535, William Tyndale, The Newe Testament Yet Once Agayne. Corrected By Willyam Tindale.

14. 1538, Myles Coverdale, The New Testament.

15. 1538, Myles Coverdale, The New Testament Both In Latine And Englyshe.

16. 1538, Johan Hollybushe, The Newe Testament Both In Latine And Englyshe.

17. 1538, Thomas Matthew, The Newe Testament.

18. 1539, Richard Taverner, The Nevv Testament in Englysshe.

19. 1540, R. Grafton and E. Whitchurch, New Testament.

20. 1548, William Tyndale, The Newe Testament.

21. 1549, Anonymous, The First Tome Or Volume Of The Paraphrase Of Erasmus vpon the Newe Testamente.

22. 1549, Myles Coverdale, The Newe Testament.

23. 1552, Richard Jugge, The Newe Testament.

24. 1557, William Whittingham, The Nevve Testament.

25. 1576, Laurence Tomson, The New Testament.

26. 1589, William Fulke, The Text of the New Testament.

27. 1599, Anonymous, New Testament, English and 11 Other Languages.

28. 1602, Geneva-Tomson-Junius New Testament, The New Testament.

29. 1653, Henry Hammond, A Paraphrase, and Annotations Upon All the Books of the New Testament.

30. 1685, Richard Baxter, A Paraphrase on the New Testament.

31. 1701, William Lloyd, The Holy Bible.

32. 1703, Daniel Whitby, Paraphrase And Commentary On The New Testament.

33. 1719, Cornelius Nary, The New Testament.

34. 1729, Anonymous, The New Testament In Greek and English.

35. 1730, Anonymous, Annotations On The New Testament.

36. 1730, William Webster, The New Testament.

37. 1731, John Lewis, The New Testament.

38. 1736, John Lindsey, A Critical And Practical Commentary On The New Testament.

39. 1738, Anonymous, The New Testament.

40. 1739, Philip Doddridge, The New Testament With Paraphrase And Notes.

41. 1739, John Guyse, An Exposition Of The New Testament, In The Form Of A Paraphrase.

42. 1745, William Whiston, Mr. Whiston's Primitive New Testament.

43. 1755, John Wesley, Explanatory Notes On The New Testament By John Wesley.

44. 1764, Richard Wynne, The New Testament.

45. 1765, Anonymous, A New Translation Of The New Testament.

46. 1765, Samuel Clarke and Thomas Pyle, New Testament.

47. 1768, Edward Harwood, A Liberal Translation of the New Testament; Being An Attempt To Translate The Sacred Writings With The Same Freedom, Spirit, and Elegance, With Which Other English Translations From The Greek Classics Have Lately Been Executed.

48. 1770, John Worsley, The New Testament.

49. 1774, James Ashton, The New Testament.

50. 1783, John Barclay, The Experience And Example Of The Lord Jesus Christ.

51. 1783, Carpenter, New Testament.

52. 1783, Rev. Bernard MacMahon, The New Testament.

53. 1790, William Gilpin, An Exposition Of The New Testament.

54. 1791, Gilbert Wakefield, A Translation Of The New Testament.

55. 1792, Anonymous, The New Testament.

56. 1795, Thomas Haweis, A Translation Of The New Testament.

57. 1796, William Newcome, The New Covenant.

58. 1796, Nathaniel Scarlett, A Translation Of The New Testament.

59. 1807, S. Palmer, The New Testament.

60. 1808, Anonymous, The New Testament.

61. 1810, Henry Harvey Baber, New Testament.

62. 1812, Anonymous, A Modern, Correct, and Close Translation Of The New Testament.

63. 1812, Anonymous, The New Testament.

64. 1813, Rev. John McDonald, The New Testament.

65. 1815, Anonymous, The New Testament.

66. 1816, William Thompson, The New Testament.

67. 1818, Rev. M. Horrabin, The New Testament.

68. 1822, Israel Alger, The New Testament.

69. 1823, Abner Kneeland, The New Testament.

70. 1824, Anonymous, The New Testament.

71. 1824, Elizabeth Jones, The New Testament; Syriac, Arabic and English Interlineary.

72. 1825, George Townsend, The New Testament, Arranged In Chronological & Historical Order.

73. 1826, Alexander Campbell, The Sacred Writings Of The Apostles And Evangelists.

74. 1827, J. A. Cummings, New Testament.

75. 1827, James Nourse, The New Testament.

76. 1828, Anonymous, The New Testament.

77. 1828, Alexander Greaves, Gospel of God's Anointed.

78. 1831, John Bird Summer, A Practical Exposition of the New Testament.

79. 1833, Rodolophus Dickinson, A New And Corrected Version of the New Testament.

80. 1833, William Lyon MacKenzie, The Productions of the Evangelists and Apostles.

81. 1834, Anonymous, The New Testament.

82. 1835, J. M. Caldecott, The Holy Writings of the First Christians.

83. 1836, Granville Penn, The Book of the New Covenant.

84. 1837, Edward Cardwell, The New Testament In Greek And English.

85. 1837, J. P. Dabney, The New Testament.

86. 1838, George Croft Cell, Explanatory Notes On The New Testament.

87. 1840, Anonymous, The New Testament.

88. 1840, Samuel Sharpe, The New Testament.

89. 1841, English Hexapla, English Hexapla.

90. 1842, Herman Heinfetter, The New Testament.

91. 1843, Sir John Clarke, The New Testament.

92. 1843, J. W. Etheridge, The New Testament.

93. 1845, George Campbell and J. MacKnight, The New Testament.

94. 1847, Anonymous, The Holy Bible.

95. 1848, A. Komstok, The New Testament.

96. 1848, Jonathan Morgan, The New Testament.

97. 1849, Anonymous, The Good News Of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

98. 1850, Anonymous, The New Testament.

99. 1850, Spencer H. Cone and William R. Wyckoff, editors, The Commonly Received Version of the New Testament . . . With Several Hundred Emendations.

100. 1850, James McMahon, The New Testament.

101. 1851, Clement Moody, The New Testament Expounded.

102. 1851, James Murdock, The New Testament.

103. 1852, John Taylor, The Emphatic New Testament.

104. 1855, Anonymous, The New Testament.

105. 1857, Jotham Albrecht Bengel, English Translation Of The New Testament.

106. 1857, J. A. Giles, The New Testament.

107. 1858, Leicester Ambrose Sawyer, The New Testament.

108. 1861, Anonymous, The New Testament.

109. 1861, William Kelly, New Testament.

110. 1862, American Bible Union, The New Testament.

111. 1862, Rev. B. Highton, A Revised Translation of the New Testament.

112. 1863, Henry Alford, The New Testament For English Readers.

113. 1864, Henry Tompkins Anderson, The New Testament.

114. 1864, Anonymous, The New Testament . . . In Phonetic Spelling.

115. 1864, Benjamin Wilson, The Emphatic Diaglott.

116. 1865, Thomas Sheldon Green, The Twofold New Testament.

117. 1868, Joseph Bryant Rotherham, The New Testament.

118. 1869, Rev. Robert Ainslie, The New Testament.

119. 1869, Henry Alford, The New Testament.

120. 1869, George R. Noyes, The New Testament.

121. 1870, Anonymous, A Critical English New Testament.

122. 1870, John Bowes, The New Testament.

123. 1871, Edward Arber, editor, William Tyndale, New Testament.

124. 1871, John Nelson Darby, The New Testament.

125. 1875, Samuel Davidson, The New Testament.

126. 1877, Anonymous, The Englishman's Greek New Testament.

127. 1877, W. L. Blackley and James Hawes, editors, The Critical English Testament.

128. 1877, John August Richter, The New Testament.

[ August 25, 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

Thanks! If you gave the list before, I apologize, but I honestly didn't see the link. If what you meant was the book by Waite, well, I'm fixing to go TDY for a while, and won't have the ability to even try to find that book until the middle of October. And the research I conducted on the web yielded only histories of the English translations per the years I told you about, so I must have been using different search terms than you did.

[ August 25, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Hey,

No, I didn't post any links related to this, or post the list before. I have mentioned the book from where this list comes from before, but I forget if it was on this forum or another.

This list, provided by a KJV-only author, can be a real eye-opener to those who think the KJV was the first and/or the only English Bible before 1881.

Brian

 

I guess I would use another version if my KJV were taken from me.
But I have read other versions and I like the KJV best. It is dear to me.
And I would like to know what some of you hold against it?

Susan

 

CC, one of those verses is reffering to when someone wrongs you, that you are to show mercy and love to them. Now if anyone needed a Bible, I'd do my best to get them one, but if someone came and told me that I was forbiden to use the KJV, and that I was to give it over to them, do you really think I would?
Do you not think I would take a stand for what is right? Do you not think I would stand up for the gospel?
If you think I'd let someone tell me I couldn't do what God tells me to do? {study to show thyself aproved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth} The Bible says it is better to obey God than man.
God's words are true and pure, and the devil hates God and His Word, and he is doing everything he can to destroy the Bible by confusing people about bible versions, but God said His word was settled forever, even in Heaven.
God is my foundation, and I have set my cornerstone with Him. The Bible has been steadily building on that foundation since I got saved.
I would die for God's word before I'd allow someone to take it away.
We need people to take a stand for what is right and to get em some convictions about some things, and stand for them no matter what man says!
I am not ashamed of the gospel, or the Bible, or my Saviour, and it dosn't matter what ANYONE says, I WILL, by God's grace, stand for the truth, and never compromise it!
EVEN SO, LORD JESUS COME QUICKLY!!
{II Timothy 3:1}
~Abby