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Question on Galatians 5:4 and OSAS

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Snitzelhoff, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. Cross Man

    Cross Man New Member

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    If our salvation is being united to Christ then being severed from Christ means?

    Perhaps this is why Paul warned these born again believers that if they followed such ways of the flesh they would not enter the Kingdom about 20 verses after.
     
  2. Tazman

    Tazman New Member

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    I believe OSAS for those that remain in him
     
  3. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    So, it's works whereby we maintain our salvation?
     
  4. Tazman

    Tazman New Member

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    So, it's works whereby we maintain our salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Works with respect to the Mosaic Law, no,... not at all.

    Obeying Jesus till the end YES! [​IMG]
     
  5. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Albert Barnes put it this way:

    "Galatians 5:4. Christ is become of no effect unto you You will derive no advantage from Christ. His work in regard to you is needless and
    vain. If you can be justified in any other way than by him, then of course you do not need him, and your adoption of the other mode is in fact a
    renunciation of him. Tyndale renders this: “Ye are gone quite from Christ.

    The word here used (katargew &lt;2673&gt;), means properly, to render inactive, idle, useless; to do away, to put an end to; and here it means that they had withdrawn from Christ, if they attempted to be justified by the Law. They would not need him if they could be thus justified; and they could derive no benefit from him. A man who can be justified by his own obedience, does not need the aid or the merit of another; and if it was true, as they seemed to suppose, that they could be justified by the Law, it followed that the work of Christ was in vain so far as they were concerned.

    Whosoever of you are justified by the law On the supposition that any of you are justified by the Law; or if, as you seem to suppose, any are justified by the Law. The apostle does not say that this had in fact ever occurred; but he merely makes a supposition. If such a thing should or could occur, it would follow that you had fallen from grace.

    Ye are fallen from grace That is, this would amount to apostasy from the religion of the Redeemer, and would be in fact a rejection of the grace of the gospel. That this had ever in fact occurred among true Christians the apostle does not affirm unless he affirmed that people can in fact be justified by the Law, since he makes the falling from grace a consequence of that. But did Paul mean to teach that? Did he mean to affirm that any man in fact had been, or could be justified by his own obedience to the
    Law?

    Let his own writings answer; see, especially, &lt;450320&gt;Romans 3:20. But unless he held that, then this passage does not prove that anyone who has ever been a true Christian has fallen away. The fair interpretation of the passage does not demand that. Its simple and obvious meaning is, that if a man who has been a professed Christian should be justified by his own conformity to the Law, and adopt that mode of justification, then that would amount to a rejection of the mode of salvation by Christ, and would be a renouncing of the plan of justification by grace. The two systems cannot be united. The adoption of the one is, in fact, a rejection of the other. Christ will be “a whole Saviour,” or none. This passage, therefore. cannot be adduced to prove that any true Christian has in fact fallen away
    from grace, unless it proves also that man may be justified by the deeds of the Law, contrary to the repeated declarations of Paul himself. The word “grace” here, does not mean grace in the sense of personal religion, it means the “system” of salvation by grace, in contradistinction from that by merit or by works — the system of the gospel."

    I have long used Gal. 5:4,9 as a warning to religionists such as Catholics that their religion of works + faith + religious sacriments + salvation is a recipe for death.

    I would also add that these verses are actually a better warning to those that don't believe in the eternal security of the saints. Why? Because they invariably believe that they must do some kind of works or keep the Law (not sin) after salvation in order to sustain their salvation. This is exactly what the Judizers were telling the Galatians (see also Acts 15:5-51), and Paul warned about in Acts 20:28-31.
     
  6. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    "Outer darkness" as referring to punishment for disobedient believers during the millenium is a theory espoused by a few scholars (Zane Hodges in particular) - but this is a minority opinion - for obvious reasons! :D
     
  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    So, disobeying Jesus (works) will cause you to lose your salvation?
     
  8. cojosh

    cojosh New Member

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    *********So you're saying that, after you believe, even if you completely apostacize and cease to believe, you'll still be saved?**********


    I don't believe someone who has truly experienced the saving grace that only Christ can bring would ever cease to believe.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You have to cling to that notion no matter what scripture says to the contrary - in order to bolster the theory of "OSAS".

    And that should tell you something.

    Now lets go for some Bible facts.

    #1. You can NOT be saved "apart from Grace" for "By GRACE are you saved through faith" Eph 2:8-10.

    #2. "Fallen from Grace" is NEVER defined as the "saved" experience.

    #3. In Romans 11 Paul is very clear about "God not sparing you" if you choose unblief.

    #4. In Matt 18 Christ specifically warns of "forgiveness revoked" saying "so shall my Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart".


    #5. Paul says in 1Cor 9 "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified from it"


    OSAS speculates that all these scriptures can be ignored, bent or wrenched enough to let OSAS servive in spite of them.

    You have to make a choice as to whether you will cling to the traditions of man or embrace the unpopular and somewhat pointed Word of God.

    A lot of people balk at that when it comes to letting go of OSAS.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Then there can be no warning about "The Shipwreck of faith" as in 1Tim 1 end of chapter - since faith can never shipwreck and there is no such thing as the "shipwreck of faithlessness".

    further there can be no such warning as we see in Romans 11 "you are to fear for if He did not spare them neither will He spare you" in connection with "you stand only by your faith".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    I'm short on time right now, but what you make shipwreck of is the "faith"; it's a noun, not "believe", a verb.

    You're saved by "believe", not by "faith".
     
  12. Tazman

    Tazman New Member

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    So, disobeying Jesus (works) will cause you to lose your salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Be careful with the way you imply the word "works". The only reason why I say that is because whenever the term works was use in a negative way it often was in reference to the tradition/law of Moses, not that of Christ.

    To disobey Jesus' call to be his student/follower will result in breaking his convenant with him.

    we are in a convenant put in to affect with His blood, and the covenant is not one sided. It is only one sided by the fact that only God can set the terms of peace (His Grace).

    Gods grace is sufficient, however, I will not impose it on myself with commiting to slavery to him. I will obey Him completely.

    Leaving Jesus to follow other Gods will result in being cut off.
     
  13. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas Active Member

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    So true, Bob. OSAS has become a modern day idol.
     
  14. Cross Man

    Cross Man New Member

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    So, disobeying Jesus (works) will cause you to lose your salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Salvation is not a possession that you lose or keep. Is an event. You do not keep or lose events anymore than you keep or lose your birthday.

    Disobeying Jesus will cause you to FALL SHORT of salvation... this one----&gt; Heb 9:28.
     
  15. Tazman

    Tazman New Member

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    So, disobeying Jesus (works) will cause you to lose your salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Salvation is not a possession that you lose or keep. Is an event. You do not keep or lose events anymore than you keep or lose your birthday.

    Disobeying Jesus will cause you to FALL SHORT of salvation... this one----&gt; Heb 9:28.
    </font>[/QUOTE]great scripture. Very encouraging.

    It seems that the hebrew writer is saying that when Jesus come back its not to bear sins again. This makes sense for those stick with lord until he returns.
     
  16. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    There is more than one salvation. There is a salvation on the last day that you currently partake of through faith in the finished work of Christ, and there is a salvation at the judgment seat of Christ that is obtained through faithful obedience. You must be saved by being born again before you can even qualify to obtain the salvation at the judgment seat of Christ. It is a mistake to assume that every time the bible says 'saved' it is talking about the same thing.
     
  17. Snitzelhoff

    Snitzelhoff New Member

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    Very interesting discussion thus far. I surmise, then, that there are essentially two views concerning Galatians 5:4 and OSAS:

    One--It cannot be reconciled. This view says that Galatians 5:4 is one of many Scriptures opposing the "false doctrine" of OSAS.

    Two--It can be reconciled, as OSAS is true, by interpreting it in basically one of two ways: either it doesn't mean losing salvation itself (which, to me, doesn't work well with the phraseology of the verse) or it points to an impossible situation of actually being justified by the Law (rather than merely seeking to be).

    Are there any other views here that I'm missing?

    Michael
     
  18. bmerr

    bmerr New Member

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    cojosh,

    bmerr here. We are agreed that a new Christian has much to learn, and will grow as he keeps his nose in the Book. But that is not what I was asking about.

    You said,

     
  19. bmerr

    bmerr New Member

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    JackRus,

    bmerr here. Barnes made the point that for a Christian to attempt to be justified by the Law would necessitate his rejection of the Grace of the NT in Christ, since the two systems of faith cannot be combined or coexist. With this I wholeheartedly agree, and have stated as much in an earlier post.

    He goes on to say that this does not require that one who had been a true Christian had ever fallen away. I suppose I could concede that point as well.

    However, I would submit that it does warn of the possibility of a Christian falling from grace, for there would be no need to warn of something that could not happen.

    I would also add that if those who rejected Christ in favor of Judaism were lost, due to holding to a system that could not save and rejecting the One Who can, why would a Christian who was deceived by false teachers not also be lost if his error caused him to embrace the OT, thus rejecting the New?

    In either case, Christ is rejected, and the Mosaic Law embraced. Paul makes abundantly clear the fact that no flesh shall be justified by the Law (Rom 3:20).

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  20. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    God's covenant does not say, "I'll do this, as long as you continue doing that". Our salvation is dependent upon his faithfulness, not on ours. He has promised that if you believe (punctiliar, not durative) you will (definitely, not maybe) be saved. This is talking about spiritual salvation, and is not dependent upon whether or not we break any covenant with him. We break that covenant daily, whether it's on a small scale or a big scale in human terms.

    If salvation is an event (which it is), then how do you fall short of it? Is there some magical line over which once you reach it then it's yours?
     
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