Question on James Chapter 5 13-18? What's the meaning of the annointing oil?????????

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    I know that in most Churches when they are going to pray they use annointing oil. In James Chapter 5, it indicates to pray for one another and annoint him or her with oil. What does the oil represent????

    Meeting Specific Needs

    13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses[e] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=66&chapter=5&version=50
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    Tali, I think that maybe the key phrase here is "in the name of the Lord", or "by the authority of the Lord". Oil in that day was used medicinally and also for annointing (as in positions of leadership). But ulitimatly, it was used in conjunction with the Lord's authority.
     
  3. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    Thanks for your response :godisgood:


    Now, see I dont think they were talking medicinally.
    The Word wouldnt say: anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord

    In the name of the lord is extremely important but there has to be a reason as to why the the Word of God clearly gives the instruction annointing him with oil. Is it like a point of contact or an act of faith. What does the oil simbolize in the bible???? :1_grouphug: :thumbs:
     
  4. trustitl

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    Question on James Chapter 5 13-18? What's the meaning of the annointing oil?????????

    I would agree with Amy that the oil is not symbolic. There are many phrases in scripture that are in the form of a command. It is called the imperative form in grammar. An example would be "run to the store". It is a command to do something.

    Not all phrases in the imperative form are commands we are to "obey". For example "Greet each other with a holy kiss" is in the form of a command. I was involved with a church that taught that this was an ordinance to be practiced out of obedience to the word of God and practiced it as an elder among them. However, I now think Paul was telling the people of these churches to practice their form of greeting each other out of a pure heart. We often walk up to people and smile and greet them out of habit or just to be polite. Paul wanted them to greet each other out of pure love for each other. "Let love be without hypocricy". Rom 12:9

    I think this is similar to what this verse is referring to. It is known that oil was and even still is used "medicinally". I think the main point of James words was not about a practice that was going to produce healing and/or forgiveness, but rather the importance of repenting to the Lord in faith and seeking forgiveness and restoration in our relationships with others.

    I don't think it is wrong to practice this, I just don't think it is something that will produce the hocus-pocus effects many are hoping for. If healing, forgivenss or restoration is occuring when it is practiced, it is because of the mercy of the Lord responding to the faith of his people.
     
  5. donnA

    donnA
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    Agree with Amy. The verse is talking about someone who is sick, and oil was used as a medicine then, we no ong rub oil on people as a medicine.
    Not sure, but I think in scripture the only other time they annointed with oil was to annoint someone as king.
     
  6. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    I appreciate all your responses. See, the thing is that Oil in the bible is mentioned so many times. I honeslty doubt that God will just mention it to just mention it. From old to new testament. Everything in God's word is inspired and there for a purpose. Like for example:

    Exodus 30:25 - 29

    25 Make these into a sacred anointing oil, a fragrant blend, the work of perfumer. It will be the sacred anointing oil.
    26 Then use it to anoint the Tent of Meeting, the ark of the Testimony,
    27 the table and all its articles, the lampstand and its accessories, the altar of incense,

    28 the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, and the basin with its stand.
    29 You shall consecrate them so they will be most holy, and whatever touches them will be holy.


    &

    Exodus 40:9

    9 "Take the anointing oil and anoint the tabernacle and everything in it; consecrate it and all its furnishings, and it will be holy.

    &

    Mark 6:13

    13 They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

    &

    James 5:14-15

    14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
    15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.



    Also, here we see THE LORD giving specific instructions on how to make it:
    Exodus 30:22-25

    22 Then the LORD said to Moses,
    23 "Take the following fine spices: 500 shekels of liquid myrrh, half as much (that is, 250 shekels) of fragrant cinnamon, 250 shekels of fragrant cane,
    24 500 shekels of cassia--all according to the sanctuary shekel--and a hin of olive oil.
    25 Make these into a sacred anointing oil, a fragrant blend, the work of a perfumer. It will be the sacred anointing oil
    .


    The above verses and I am sure there are much and many more are the reasons I think that we cant just disregard annointing oil. I mean, the Lord himself gave Moses specific instructions on how to make it, why would the Lord give instructions on how to make it, why would it be continually used in the old and new testament. There has to be some sort of meaning behind it.

    God tells Moses to annoint Tent of Meeting, the ark of the Testimony and when he does it will be holy.

    In Mark its said that: 13 They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

    There is far too much mention of oil in the word to just disregard it. Thoughts????

    This is just a guess but I think its about faith and obedience. God gave this instruction to Moses to see if Moses was obedient and God still has this in his word in the New Testament as faith and obedience. Just a guess but please give me your thoughts and have an AWESOME and BLESSED DAY!!!!! All of you are AWESOME!!!
     
    #6 TaliOrlando, Apr 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2008
  7. trustitl

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    When I went to Ukraine to adopt two little girls I was under the laws and authority of that country. When I returned home, I was back under the laws of the U.S..

    The laws about the oil you are referring to was in another "kingdom". Those who live in that kingdom are subject to those laws.

    You and I are in the Kingdom of God and are not subject to the laws of Jews. You will find yourself struggling over oil recipes very soon if you do not see this distinction. You will also find yourself strugglling over other recipes to prepare your food as well. In addition you will be confused over a myriad of laws that deal with your wifes menstrual cycle, what to do on the sabbath, what your clothes can be made of,...............

    I am aware that this is mentioned in the scriptures that we call the New Testament, but as I mentioned earlier, there are other "commands" in the NT that you are probably not obeying such as the holy kiss.

    As you seek God's will on this observe people who are performing these rituals. Also, you will find someone like me making claims that these people are in bondage to the rudiments of the world (Col. 2). You will need to apply the following verse as you discern the truth. Make sure that you note that the "spirit" of these people is doing the confessing and not their mouths. For both they and I will confess Christ with our mouths. Remember, Jesus said not everybody that called Him Lord would be in the kingdom with Him.

    I John 4
    "1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them."


    What did Jesus come to do "in the flesh"?
     
  8. Amy.G

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    To set men free from the Law! Praise God!
     
  9. trustitl

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    Question on James Chapter 5 13-18? What's the meaning of the annointing oil?????????

    Amy,

    Do you see the connection in I John 4 with bringing people back under law? These are false teachers who are out in the world that are undoing what Christ came to do: as you said well "To set men free from the Law! Praise God!" (By the way, I like how you didn't say "people". It is always nice to see a woman confident enough to know that "men" includes her :thumbs: )

    The world loves to live by law because it is the only way they think they can control the flesh.
    "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them."

    However, we know that the law is unable to do even that. It is only by being crucified with Christ that we can put to death the deeds of the flesh.

    "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." Gal 5:22:jesus:

    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Gal. 5:1 :jesus:
     
  10. donnA

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    Your O.T. verses are to specific people, for specific instances.
    Your Mark verse does not say they were healed because of the oil, or by the oil.

    You have got to take verses in the context they were written.

    Yes, thats what God said to Moses, not to you or us.
     
  11. Agnus_Dei

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    Anointing the sick with oil is what the Hebrew people did in the OT and as you pointed out clearly, is what the disciples of our Lord did in the NT and it’s what the Church continues to do today…nothing has changed.

    Last week, we in the Orthodox Church experienced Holy Week (our Easter was this past Sunday…we don’t follow the Catholic Church’s calendar as do all Protestants, even the..wink, wink…non-denominational bunch) and on Holy Wednesday, the Orthodox faithful were anointed with oil, which provides both physical and spiritual healing. the oil carries God’s grace both to renew the body and cleanse the spirit, just as Mark 6:13 and James 5:14-15 testifies to.


    InXC
    -
     
  12. TaliOrlando

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    Thanks for all your responses!!!

    What about in James:
    James 5:14-15

    14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.
    15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

    I belive this is after Jesus had died on the cross. I know trustl has touched on this about being free from the law. Now, in this instance we see that this instruction of annointing with oil in the name of the lord is given after Jesus had died on that cross for our sins. It just doesnt look to me like its something we should disregard.
     
  13. TaliOrlando

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    Thanks Trustl for this. I never looked at this way before. May God continue to bless you and your family.
     
  14. donnA

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    You've already been told, in their time period they considered oil to be a medicine.
     
  15. trustitl

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    The orthodox church (whoever that is, for they are not able to agree among themselves) does not adhere to all of the commands in Mark 6.


    Mark 6
    7And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits; 8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse: 9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats.
     
  16. Whowillgo

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    Although I truly agree with you in the thought that we must not become slaves to law as we have Christ to fulfill the law, I must disagree with you on the context of James 5. This book was written to Jewish Christians, not religious Jews.
    I spent many years as a Pastor trying to over inpret this passage and refused to view it as what it is. I believe our Lord heals through medicine but I also believe he heals beyond medicine. Within the last year I have followed this passge (3) times with members whose illness was beyond man's medicine, in each case there was an immediate change. cancer, alzheimers, deteriorated back. I will be the first to say I do not believe in so-called healers but I truly regret I had not spent more time giving things to The Divine Healer Jesus Christ. Did the oil or the
    elders heal them? NO!!! The Lord did and I believe not following this passge is something Iwill account for to my Lord
     
  17. trustitl

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    Notice that the Orthodox faithful were all annointed with oil wheras the passage in James says for an individual to call upon the elders when he is sick. I guess it is preventive medicine?

    Also, note it is claimed that the oil is the avenue for God's grace to flow. The passage in James indicates that it is the faith that is the channel of God's grace. This is another example of the rituals in the orthodox and catholic church that are to numerous to mention.
     
  18. trustitl

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    These born again Jews were practicing many things that had been handed down for centuries

    Perhaps you will give account for not giving things to the Divine Healer rather than not following the practice discussed in this passage.

    Beware of basing your understanding and doctrine on personal experience. I could cite many people who were following this passage to a "T" combined with faith and did not receive "their" healings. It led them into much bondage and questioning of their faith.

    Worse yet, beware of false signs and wonders.
     
  19. Whowillgo

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    I fully agree, this passage is not a garantee of healing that is God's soverinty. I do believe though if we discard passages we find related to signs and wonders and instructions to traditional Jews. Then I must discard Timothy as only instruction to the Pastors or Hebrews as only instruction to the Jews. Personal experience is my greatest testimoney. Those who become enslaved by practices are those that simply do not understand God has the final say. I respect anyone's opinion but I must follow what I have learned. I fear that the greatest travesty in our pulpits and sadly in mine also is that Pastors are teaching what they have been taught not what they have learned. I have great respect for those that have broken that bond and diligently sought out the teachings of God. I certainly would not encourage anyone to violate their convictions but I for one have had to relook at why I ignore certain scriptures as not applying to the church of the 21st century.
     
  20. trustitl

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    Well Whowillgo, I can't argue with that. God bless you as you go beyond reciting rote doctrines. :thumbs:

    I would say that if you and I are seeking after God with pure hearts and fail to fully understand things and do something "wrong" and learn from it, in reality have actually done what was right: walking by faith as did Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. :godisgood:

    This is the joy of having a loving Father who will teach us and guide us.
     

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