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Question on Justification

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Jun 22, 2003.

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  1. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Romans 4.24: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Brethren, what can we do with the above passage of scripture if justification is conditional. this is the essence of the question I posted I think. Is justification from eternity or is it condtional?

    I still think, at the risk of being called 'hyper' that it is from eternity. I view this in two aspects:

    1. From the view of God it is nothing but eternal
    2. From the view of man it appears in time and is realized only at the point that in all outward appearances seems to be that it is conditional upon repentance and faith.

    I for one, whether this is PB, MB, or NBA, I do not know, so you must decide for yourself what kind of a 'heretic' I am, but I beleive no man repents unless he first believes. Is this not Biblical.

    What man will cry out to the Son of David for mercy except that he first is visited by the Spirit of God and taught of his sinfulness? What man will cry out or if that is too strong, who will believe our report except they are moved by the Spirit of holiness which is the same power of God that raised Christ from the grave (Rom. 1.4)? there is none who are born free from the sin nature, not even the elect, there is not one who seeks after God (Rom. 3.9-20). But for those who are of the elect, the realization in time of Rom. 3.24 cannot fail...how can it? It is stated as we read it above and now restated:
    'Being justified freely by his grace...'

    Being justified---Strong's 1344---render, or show or regard.

    So, I conclude, and if wrongly then may the Lord have mercy on me when I am judged, but how can it be wrongly concluded when it is so plainly stated as such, and this being not because of my faith, not because of my repentance, not because of any condition that was met before but founded freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus...'

    How can it be made more plain to us???
    Then in vs. 25 we read 'whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past through the forbearance of God...'

    Here is mentioned through faith, but that justification is freely by grace and the grounds being the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, a propitiation, our place of propitiation that is His Blood, in the Septuagint and in Heb. 9.5 it (propitiation---or hilasterion) is used for the mercy seat, so then, Christ becomes the mercy seat, thus, Christ is the altar; to the lost, even the elect He is the altar of Judgement and found to be the mercy seat over and above which God will commune with His people.

    How plain.

    yet we worry and fear that we must make apologies for God because this is all worked in eternity and for His name's sake He has placed in Christ an elect people?? Why must we be so apologetic?

    the Bible proves beyond doubt that no man seeks after God (Rom. 3.11). How is it we think these are being violated? Have they not the witness of the Gospel? Have they not the witness of the creation of God? Have they not the witness of the common mercy of God upon all men lost and saved alike? What more witness is needed that they will turn and yield to their creator? What more is needed to exact their sacrifice when they have no interest in the justification that is freely given by His grace, what more is needed to be added to the mercy seat of God in Christ?

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
    Matt. 26.6-16
     
    #41 Frogman, Jun 29, 2003
  2. Graceforever

    Graceforever New Member

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    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
     
    #42 Graceforever, Jun 29, 2003
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. </font>[/QUOTE]Justification is by atonement. Atonement means the penalty for each of, and all mankind's sin is paid. Sin does not cause death of the believer, and sins are not held against us. Yes, every human must experience the death of the natural body. But not all face the second death, only the unbelievers.

    Salvation is therefore not based on the remission of Sin, but on ones faith! Those without faith face the "second death". Those with faith do not face judgment! This situation would not be possible without the Atonement for Sin, but since Jesus atoned for our sins 2000 years ago, we are not held accountable. Salvation is based exclusively upon our faith in God. It is faith, or the lack thereof, that determines whether or not one is judged, and if judged, the sentence is the second death.
     
    #43 Yelsew, Jun 29, 2003
  4. Graceforever

    Graceforever New Member

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    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. </font>[/QUOTE]Justification is by atonement. Atonement means the penalty for each of, and all mankind's sin is paid. Sin does not cause death of the believer, and sins are not held against us. Yes, every human must experience the death of the natural body. But not all face the second death, only the unbelievers.

    Salvation is therefore not based on the remission of Sin, but on ones faith! Those without faith face the "second death". Those with faith do not face judgment! This situation would not be possible without the Atonement for Sin, but since Jesus atoned for our sins 2000 years ago, we are not held accountable. Salvation is based exclusively upon our faith in God. It is faith, or the lack thereof, that determines whether or not one is judged, and if judged, the sentence is the second death.     </font>[/QUOTE]I don't have any problem with that.... 1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
    32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
     
    #44 Graceforever, Jun 29, 2003
  5. Gunther

    Gunther New Member

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    Frogman, this verse appears toward the end on the greatest treatise on the need for salvation by faith alone in Christ.

    That is specifically what Paul has been saying. This verse does indeed teach that justification would be accomplished through the Son.

    Justification though must be experienced by a person in time. This is accomplished through faith alone in Christ.

    If it does not happen, only judgment and hell will await the person.
     
    #45 Gunther, Jun 30, 2003
  6. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Frogman, this verse appears toward the end on the greatest treatise on the need for salvation by faith alone in Christ.

    That is specifically what Paul has been saying. This verse does indeed teach that justification would be accomplished through the Son.

    Justification though must be experienced by a person in time. This is accomplished through faith alone in Christ.

    If it does not happen, only judgment and hell will await the person.     </font>[/QUOTE]How refreshing Gunther, for some reason my mind was blanked out to that scripture, I had read it many times and used it often in sermonettes at the Rescue mission, but for some reason on this BBS I could not recall it. Thank you

    It is so familiar to me that it appears that I also skipped over it in Frogman's posts. Sorry!

    [ June 30, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Yelsew ]
     
    #46 Yelsew, Jun 30, 2003
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