Featured Question on wine?

One think on the topic, Jordan, it sounds like you are learning to think for yourself and study the Word of God for what it really says. Having been reared in an IFB environment I applaud you for growing in faith. This is just one of many topics where you are going to learn that the teaching of your youth may have been simplified and may not match the Bible. I know I learned that lesson rather painfully.

Now off the topic, a guy at work was complaining to me the other day because another employee kept inviting him to church and he did not want to go. I know both of these men and the one doing the inviting is a very Independent IFBer and can be a bit pushy with his faith. The other man did not grow up in a Christian home and is saved now and looking for a church home for his family. They are attending regularly now, but not at a Baptist church.

Anyway – I told him, “Well tell [bubba1] (not his real name) you will come visit his church on one condition. Tell him you won’t go to any of those churches that use fake wine for the communion. Ask him how you can expect them to preach the real Jesus if they serve fake wine?”

Then I sat back and waited for the show to begin. No [bubba2] (also not his real name) did not go through with it, he knew better.

 

Most of this is incorrect.

 

There's a fine line (that gets fuzzy) between sobriety and drunkenness.

Be careful equating the OT priesthood with the NT ordained ministry. The two aren't the same and the implications from equating them are difficult.

 

That's a nice snappy answer, but it is hardly justification for misrepresenting scripture. Your description of the first miracle of Jesus from John 2 that claims it is mixed wine, it was made in the water pots, etc. is completely without any scriptural basis.

 

Oh no not this topic again!

 

Let me summarize the rest of this thread for you.

It was fermented.

No it wasn't.​

Yes it was.

You don't know what you're talking about.​

Yes I do. YOU don't know what You are talking about.

Jesus didn't drink fermented wine.​

Yes He did.

It will lead to dancing.​

Finally, we agree on something.

Calvin drank fermented wine.​

No he did not.

Women should not wear pants.​

It is Rick Warren's fault.

Rick Warren drinks wine? Do you have a citation for that or are you starting unsubstantiated rumors?​

The Greek word is welchs. Everybody knows welchs is translated grape juice.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

So we just take your word for it I suppose. You need to get most of your FACTS straight.

 

Not sure exactly what you are asking here Jordan. Yes it was indeed fermented. Yes it is really bad to get your neighbor drunk so you can "look on their nakedness" (most of the time you find this phrase in scripture we are talking about sexual relations). I am pretty sure that did not happen in Cana. OK, I am completely sure.

 

As I said in my previous post - YES! I didn't actually say yes in my previous post but I'm sure somebody will put words in my mouth. People that consume alcohol will do that. They also kick puppies.

 

Actually, this is a very good example of why I often get frustrated with my fellow Baptists. The internet document where you are getting your “facts” is not factual.

I don’t know anywhere where “history tells us” any such thing. “Strong drink” in the Bible was likely a category of alcoholic beverages made from grains, such as beers and other concoctions that were very common in the ancient world.

The ancients DID often dilute their wine, but not necessarily all the time.

That sounds good EXCEPT the scripture specifically mentions that the water pots we are discussing were ceremonial washings (this is stated plainly in John 2:6). Did you even go back to review the passage?

As I pointed out before, I do not think the plain meaning of the Greek lends itself to teaching that the water in the water pots was changed to wine. Instead, the wine came from the well (or was transformed in the bucket as it was being drawn).

Providing wine is different from “encouraging sin.” Moreover, there is not prohibition against “strong drink” in the scriptures except for kings and priests at times where they are conducting their duties. Deuteronomy 14:26 specifically mentions buying “strong drink” as enjoying it as an act of worship.

Actually, the master of the feast remarked that the wine was uncommon (the best), so I think your assumption is very weak in that regard. It was definitely not common in nature. And since most of your “facts” are wrong, your conclusion is not only speculative, but also very likely wrong. Moreover, you have yet to provide positive evidence for your position.