Question regarding Calvinistic view of limited atonement

But you admittedly disagree with Hodge's (et al) interpretation of scriptures regarding this particular point and yet have the audacity to suggest I can't even read road signs because I'm the one that brings it to your attention.

Put up or hush up. General unfounded accusations serve no one and accomplish nothing. Quote where I've done this and make a case. Do some actual work and form a real argument. It's called debate. Try it sometime, its kind of fun...:smilewinkgrin:

Google their names and the word 'atonement.' It's not that hard.

And so do other Calvinists. That is fine. There has been debate on this matter among Reformed theologians for years. It is just frustrating when people act as if they aren't saying what they have clearly said because they can't bare to think one of 'their own' might have a different approach on this subject than they do. I challenge them (and you) to study up on it before attacking me.

 

Are you saying that Hodge has said that the law no longer stands against both those who are in Christ, and those who are not? That on Judgment Day, the one who is not in Christ is not being judged for his adulteries, murders, lies, etc., but merely on the fact that he has no faith Christ?

Yes or no with explanatory note of no more than 100 words, please.

 

No. Nothing impedes his entering heaven, save ONLY his own unbelief.

I'm saying that it is a FALSE ASSUMPTION to think that Calvinists (like Hodge) have historically taught that the satisfaction of Christ on the cross was comparable to the payment of a debt for individuals, as if he suffered just so much for so many. Some, like you, seem to think He paid so much for one soul, and so much for another, and any payment made available to a soul that ends up lost in hell would be wasted...or his blood would be split needlessly.

If this is the correct view of the atonement then, according to Hodge, the gospel can only be rightly offered to those whose debts he has actually cancelled. Hodge adamantly reject this view and argues, "That this doctrine was never held by any historical church and the ascription of it to Augustinians can only be accounted for on the ground of ignorance."

Understand?

 

Aaron, you've been making some excellent points, I appreciate your insights on the truths of the atonement derived from the law. Sounds like you've read some of Pink, maybe.

Also, I don't think you will, but don't fret about whether you're in agreement with Princeston scholars or not. That means nothing.

 

I am only pointing out that you are misinterpreting Acts 16:16 and Eph 2:8 to comply with your understanding of the scriptures and I am dealing with the context of the post.

 

Erregardless of what John Calvin believes, Christ did not die for all mankind. God said that those who have not the Spirit are none of his. Whom the Lord loveth, he chastens and scourgest every son whom he receiveth. God does not chasten those that are not his, Ps 73:5 and Job 21:9.

 

God sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for the "world of his elect", not the whole race of Adam.

 

RIGHT.....that is scriptural & the position held traditionally by Salvation by Grace believers...He died for sons, for the sanctified, for the brethren, for the church, and for the children (Heb. 2: 9-15).

 

You have made the statement that ones unblief will keep them out of heaven. How do you explain 2 Tim 2:13? If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful; he cannot deny himself. Believing can bring about many timely salvations but not eternal salvation.

 

I don't remember providing you my interpretation of those verses.

 

I think you meant "irregardless." And since "ir" is a prefix meaning "not," and you coupled it with "regardless," which would actually make it "regarding" because of the double-negative implied by "ir" and "less," I think you actually meant "regardless." Unless you actually meant "regarding what John Calvin believes," in which case, my apologies, and please continue.

 

You learn them some good english!


Erregardless

Because sometimes improper grammar just isn't enough.



...I hope I didn't misspell anything there.

 

Is there a way to get a straight answer out of this man? He just answered yes and no.

Let me rephrase the question. Does the law stand to convict the unbeliever? Yes or no.

 

:thumbs:

I'm not worried. I've looked up the works he's citing. Now if we can just get a straight answer out of the boy, Hodge will be exonerated.

 

Its fine with him, or you, or Steve, or Luke, or Fredrick to be in disagreement with the Princeton Calvinistic scholars. The problem is when they pretend to know more than they do on the matter and attack me as 'twisting,' 'misrepresenting,' or just being too stupid to understand, when I am the only one QUOTING THEM VERBATIM and providing documentation for my arguments.

Pink would be considered in the "higher" (or more extreme) camp on this issue and I'm glad you at least acknowledge that distinction rather than attacking the messenger. :applause:

 

I started my answer with a "NO." And then went on to give you a very THOROUGH explaination as to what Hodge is arguing against. If you can't understand that then may I suggest you study up on it and then come back and try to have a rational discussion with me about how you (and Pink) disagree with him and the other scholars from the Princeton school... Okay?

Yes, but only because of his unbelief, not because of his breaking of the law...

Calvin put it this way: "As no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open to all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief."

If the law, in addition to unbelief, stood in the way then Calvin wouldn't have said this.

Jesus, more importantly, said, "I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."

What will condemn the unbeliever on the last day?
"that very word which I spoke..."