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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by faithtrustbelief, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. faithtrustbelief

    faithtrustbelief
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    As I posted before,I am sad to report that the church I pastor at is deciding to have a vote on whether or not to kick me out. I am under heavy persecution for preaching the absolute truth of the gospel. I was even yelled at by a couple of members and called names. Even the ones that are persecuting me state he does preach the truth, but they are always hard messages and never uplifting ones. I am torn on what to do.

    Here is the question:

    Do I resign before the vote? or Do I face up to the vote knowing in my heart I am going to lose?
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Hard to say given the little information you have told us here. It is possible ot "preach the absolute truth" in a way that does not build people up. Too many preachers are "beating the sheep" rather than feeding them. You might take time to examine your own style of ministry. There is a place for "hard messages," but the task of the pastor is to build people up in their faith, not tear them down. On the other hand, some people are too sensitive to their feelings and not sensitive enough to the Spirit through the word.

    Whether or not you should resign is entirely up to you. In the end, it will make no difference. If it has gotten to this point, the church is sufficiently disturbed that a resignation before a pending vote will not calm things.
     
  3. PastorSBC1303

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    I do not know if that is a question that any of us can answer....you have to seek the Lord and do as He calls. If He says to resign, then do so. If He says to stay then stay.

    Sometimes in my life I have found myself asking everyone their opinion on my situation and I end up neglecting the One who really counts, the Lord. I am not saying you are doing that, but just make sure you are seeking the Lord in this matter and are willing to do as He calls even if it does not make sense.
     
  4. Mark Osgatharp

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    If you are preaching the absolute truth out of love for God and man, then keep preaching it and make them fire you and don't apologize. But make sure you are, indeed, preaching the absolute truth and that you are preaching it out of love for God and man.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  5. StraightAndNarrow

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    What is the primary point they are making against your presentation of the gospel?
     
  6. buckster75

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    Listen to God not man. It is my opinion that they are seeking the "feel good" messages that have become so "popular". I say stick with the truth and stand firm to the end. Jesus would have been voted out of every synagougue He would have ever been in but He would have spoken the truth (and He did) to the death. I know I don't agree with everything you believe but I will not deny that you believe you get it from God. That being the case, again I say fight on to the vote.
     
  7. faithtrustbelief

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    Here is some more information. It is onyl one guy and his family that is causing the persecution I am under. Unforunately he tithes the most in the church and built the church. There are 3 reasons he has expressed for his persecution:

    1) He states the messages are always the absolute truth and never his own words "feel good" messages. "He stated and yelled I am not a man of God for this reason."

    2) He states " this man has no problem with black people being in the church, and I do. He stated "on the deed it states if a black person was to join the church then it closes." He stated and yelled "he is not a man of God for this reason."

    3)He stated My wife has been divorced before, but I have never been divorced. Which was brought out during the interview process. He stated this is another reason I am not a man of God. I then proceeded to slide the bible over to him and ask show me in the bible where it states I cannot be a man of God because my wife was divorced. He stated this grievance was not biblical, and then he threatened me physically.

    So there are all the details.. Should I resign before the vote or stay for the vote? I feel once the congregation sees the bills and then knows they can keep the church open and pay utilities, but will not be able to pay me without him, then they will turn on me.
     
  8. blackbird

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    At this point--I'd make 'um fire me!! But at the same time-I'd have all the grieviences in writing---with the deacon's signing the grieviences---then I would go into the realm of "interviewing" for another church--bringing those grieviences with me on paper---to show them(at their request, of course) the reasons I was fired---then I would sit down with each church that interviews me and interview them---probably using those grieviences as a guideline of sorts---I would for sure find out if the interviewing church "meant business" for the Lord Jesus Christ-----IOW---I, too, am tired of playing "Patty Cake" and changing diapers and wipeing noses and etc.----we're too close to the coming rapture/resurrection of the church---to be playin' church!!!!

    Blackbird
     
  9. buckster75

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    sounds like the devil got a fim hold of this man and perhaps others if these statements of race are in a deed. you sound like you will be better off to be rid of this lot. but I still say fight to the vote. I know if it were me I would retain my membership and continue to battle against these false teachings that exist there even after they vote me out as pastor. but you may not feel led to go that far.
     
  10. guitarpreacher

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    I would do everything that Blackbird said, plus one additional thing (mainly because I still have a mean streak in me) I would get those three issues in writing (minutes of the business meeting should work just fine) and the day after the meeting I would fax the following to each local newspaper:

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: LOCAL CHURCH FIRES PASTOR OVER RACIAL AND FAMILY ISSUES.

    Evil deeds need to be brought into the light, and that would throw a big ol' spotlight their way.
     
  11. TCassidy

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    Under no circumstances should you quit. If God called you there you have no business resigning. If the carnal deacon thinks he can get enough people to vote against you, let him try, but make sure he is the bad guy, not you.

    I went through this same thing about 18 years ago. I had a deacon who thought it was his job to run everything in the church, including me. I disagreed. I thought that was God's job. He finally told me I "had to go." I didn't. He brought it to a vote and he lost by 3 votes. I stayed. Brought new people into the church. The next time he tried it, he not only lost, but another deacon moved that the carnal deacon be placed under church discipline, his office of deacon revoked, as well as his voting privileges. It passed by a 3/4 majority. He left and I never saw him again. I mean never. Anywhere. He just disappeared. His house was sold and he just faded into the sunset.

    Stay until God moves you. If they vote you out of the pastorate, stay a member and sit in the front row and shake your head at everything the carnal deacon says from the pulpit. :D :D :D
     
  12. guitarpreacher

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    I'll say one other thing - If somehow you win the vote, and the bilaws or deed or whatever state that blacks are not allowed in the church, item number one on your agenda should be to rewrite the bilaws to be inclusive to anyone that Jesus died for.
     
  13. SAMPLEWOW

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    I'm no preacher but I did notice one of the first things you said was;"I no in my heart" I have struggled hear in school with things that I "feel" but I believe if we did everything based on feelings as chistians we would be in big trouble spiritually.Do not run on your feelings as specially when your feelings are off the chart.
    Go with what God tells you to do, and change nothing until then. Just what on the Lord. there may be a very important purpose for all this ,I,m sure there is.
    keep your chin up and thank the Lord .
    I'LL be praying. ;)
     
  14. buckster75

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    funny thing about those "sheep" they will follow another "sheep" no matter how lost that "sheep" might be. Must be why Jesus got the shepards to watch over the flock.
     
  15. faithtrustbelief

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    Here is something that has changed with this situation.

    One of deacons called and told me the bylaws state in order for me to win the vote I would have to garner 75% of the votes. He states from the bills and all the church is in the hole. He stated also the bylaws state we would have to wait 2 weeks for the vote, and I not get paid.

    The very gentleman who started all the persecution called to tell me he has nothing left in the church account to even pay me this week with all the bills. However, he stated he would put in enough money in hisself so that my check from last week would clear. However, he stated there was no way they can pay me this week. That is all the bad news.

    Here is the good news. He also apologized to me for the hurt he has caused our family. He says he wants to meet with me to talk things over with me tomorrow in order to make things right. He stated he has been under alot of stress due to his company suffering major losses. He is having alot of personal problems, and come to find out the IRS is after him and his business.

    However, he stated he doesnt have the money it takes to keep the church open and much less to pay me. He stated this is not the first time this has happened to a pastor from him. All the members feel they should close the church, and do not want to keep it open cause it will not grow from all the hurt this man has caused the church over the years.

    I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT ANY OF THIS! I prayed on the situation and my Lord Jesus Christ has told me it is time to move on. He stated it may take some time but he will open up a new church for me to serve. I think it is best I go in there Sunday morning and resign gracefully and not bring up the terrible things that have happened.

    Any thoughts?
     
  16. TexasSky

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    So basically - you are being fired because the church is broke, not because you are not a good minister, and the church is not living up to its financial obligations to its Pastor.

    I agree with Dr. Cassidy. Make them fire you.

    I don't know how things like unemployment work with ministers, but in the general population - you don't get it if you quit. If you are fired - you get unemployment unless they can show just cause for firing you (didn't show up for work, stole from the office, totally incompetent).

    You'll have to ask the ministers if that applies to them. I don't quite know how the law works in regards to you Pastors.
     
  17. buckster75

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    I don't understand. Why resign now? Are you sure that is the what Jesus said? Did not sound like the vote is still going to take place. Am I reading that right? Seems now you should stay more than ever.
     
  18. buckster75

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    The pastors pay is actually the only "bill" that a church "pays" that can be backedup by scripture. But I have seen other churches do the same. When there is not enough money take it out on the preaachers pay. How big is this church?
     
  19. bapmom

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    Its never ever a good thing when ONE man things he can keep the church open, or close it based on how much HE gives in the offering. Pastor, I hope you do stay there, and let God show those people that the church is not kept alive by one man's tithe, but it is kept alive by God, and His provision.

    Im sure you know this, I wouldn't presume to tell a preaching anything as if he didn't know. I just wanted to try to encourage you. Our church went through an actual split several years ago in which several families left. The families that left were the faithful givers, they were so confident that we could not stay open without them that they went to their bus routes and told all the kids that next week there'd be no bus coming because the church was closing down! Sir, let me tell you, God kept our church open and those buses ran the next week.....we didn't miss a beat! God can do it for us, He can do it for you, too.

    Our preacher did have to get a secular job for about a year, but now we look back on that time as a testament to his love for us and his committment to stay where God had put him.

    I'll be praying for you whatever you decide, sir....and your family, too.
     
  20. TCassidy

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    Good for your pastor! That is what I would do too, if that ever happened to me. God called me here and I'm not leaving until He either kills me or raptures me! If I have to get a secular job to keep the wolf away from the door, so be it. Making tents was not beneath Paul and earning a secular paycheck is not beneath any of us.
     

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