Questions about baptism (not a CoC thread)

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by thegospelgeek, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek
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    OK, I have a few questions about baptism and how the word is uses in the NT. John says that he baptizes with water but Christ with the HS and fire.

    Question 1 What is meant by the fire that Christ baptizes with?

    Paul says there is one Baptism.
    In context it appears to me that he is speaking of a unity of things that bring us into the faith. Agree or disagree? Please explain.

    If I am correct in the above, then are most if not all references to baptism in the NT reffering to a baptism of the HS? Why or why not?
     
  2. Pastor David

    Pastor David
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    John, in speaking of the one who is coming, is referring the Jesus. As to the baptism mentioned here it could refer to one of two things. It is possible he's referring, either to the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit, which were bestowed on the disciples on the day of Pentecost, of which the cloven tongues, like as of fire, reperesented.

    Or rather, and this is the more probable interpretation, this phrase is expressive of the awful judgments which should be inflicted by Christ on the Jewish nation; when he by his Spirit should "reprove" them for the sin of rejecting him; and when he should appear as a "refiner's fire", and as "fuller's soap"; when "the day of the Lord" should "burn as an oven" (see Malachi 3) upon them.

    This appears the best interpretation because John's audience was then the whole people of the Jews, some of whom had been baptized by him; and others who were asking him questions, others looking and watching him, and wondering what manner of person he was; and multitudes of them continued obstinate and unrepentant under his ministry, who he threatens severely in the context, and who the One who comes after him continues to do.
     
  3. thegospelgeek

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    Am I understanding you correctly in saying that the two baptisms of Christ (HS and Fire) are Imerrsion in the Holy Spirit for the saved and judgement(fire) for the lost?

    Is the one baptism that paul speaks of the baptism in the HS?

    What about the verses that command baptism such as Acts 2:38? Is this speaking of that one baptism paul mentions, the baptism or immersion in the Holy Spirit?
     
  4. Pastor David

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    Think of it like this: Our outward baptism is a sign that we have been inwardly baptized. In other words, the true cleansing takes place within us, when we are purged from our sins and purified by the work of the Holy Spirit. The mere washing of water does not take away sin - only Christ can do that. But our baptism is a sacred expression of this reality in our lives and a testimony to the work that has been wrought in us by the Lord.
     
  5. thegospelgeek

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    Got that. But when Paul speaks of baptism in his letters, which is he speaking of? Water baptism or Baptism of the HS which John said Jesus would baptize in? When paul said there was one baptism, what is it he is speaking of?
     
  6. Zenas

    Zenas
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    I think Paul was referring to water baptism like we do today, and by referring to "one baptism" he had in mind situations like he encountered at Ephesus in Acts 19:1-7.
     
  7. Pastor David

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    The answer is: Yes! In Titus for example Paul speaks of the washing of regeneration (3:1?). In other words, the sign (our outward baptism) and the thing signified (inward spiritual purity) are practically the same in his mind. (Though it is clear in Pauline theology it is the latter, and not the former which effects salvation). When he speaks of one baptism, Paul is alluding to the unity of all believers - one Lord, one faith, one baptism. Just as we believe in the same Lord, we accept the same faith and submit to the same baptism - both outwardly and inwardly.
     
  8. thegospelgeek

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    What is Jesus refering to in Mark 16:16?
    Water baptism or HS baptism?
    If water baptism then the following verse that he who does not beleive makes sense. But if water is meant then why add "and is baptized". If it is a HS baptism, would the following verse imply that without belief there can be no HS baptism?
     
  9. thegospelgeek

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    If the one baptism is a water baptism, what about the baptism that John the Baptist speaks of?

    I'll be out most of the night, I have to go to the Funeral Home and won't be back till late. Come on folks, I know a lot more of you know this stuff so jump in and educate me.
     
  10. Pastor David

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    I think this question simply returns us to a traditional Baptistic intepretation of such verses. Like in Acts 2:38 (a fav of CoC's) where it reads "repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins..." this verse would be understood similarly. That is, our obedience in submitting to outward baptism is a sign (not a certainity) of our inward baptism by the Holy Spirit.
     
  11. Jerome

    Jerome
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    baptism = one's public identification with Christ.
    In light of their very recent doubting and disavowals, Christ exhorted the apostles to both believe and proclaim the gospel.

    Matt. 10:32-33
    Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
     
  12. TCGreek

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    Because we try to read back our modern day practices of water baptism to the NT times.

    When a person came to faith in Christ, they went immediately public with their faith (Acts 2:41; 10:43-48).
     

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