Questions about divorce

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by KimS, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. KimS

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    In Matthew 5:32, its says the only allowable divorce is due to infidelity.

    In 1 Corinthians 7:12 - 16, its says that if you have an unbelieving spouse and they choose to leave, to let them leave.

    Now what I don't understand is:

    1. From Matthew, it says the husband may leave his wife if she is unfaithful, but what if it's the other way around?

    2. From Corinthians, what if at the time of the divorce, you were both unsaved? If one becomes a believer later, after the divorce, and wishes to remarry will that make them and adulterer?

    What do you think?

    Thanks,

    Kim [​IMG]
     
  2. Frogman

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    1. From Matthew, it says the husband may leave his wife if she is unfaithful, but what if it's the other way around?
    I believe this is not exclusively a right of the husband but also meant to be taken concerning the wife also.

    2. 2. From Corinthians, what if at the time of the divorce, you were both unsaved? If one becomes a believer later, after the divorce, and wishes to remarry will that make them and adulterer?

    I believe so, but I believe they are able to receive forgiveness through repentance. I do not believe the husband in this situation will Biblically be permitted to enter into the ministry of either a deacon or an ordained preacher. I also believe this extends to teachers. This is recognized as part of the duties of a pastor and the deacon and therefore I would say the scripture bars divorced men from teaching as well.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  3. Daniel David

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    No divorce, no remarriage.

    Remarriage after divorce is adultery in every circumstance.
     
  4. Helen

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    Thanks a lot, DD. I'm glad the Bible does not agree with you!
     
  5. Jailminister

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    Matthew 5 does not allow for divorce due to adultery(sex with someone else after marriage), it is only allowed if the man finds out his wife had committed fornication(sex before marriage) before they were married.
    There in lies the problem. Adultery by the wife or husband is not a reason for divorce. That is a tough pill to swallow with instant marriages and instant divorces today. This is all part of the endtime scenario. Now how do we handle this? I think the only way is by MERCY. There are lots of things that the bible says we are not to do, yet we do them. It does not mean that God stops loving us, but it does mean that it will cost us when we do wrong. That is when God's mercy steps in when He sees a sincere contrite spirit in His child and He just forgives us with His Mercy. Does that mean all is ok. No. It does mean that God loves us beyond our imagination if we humble ourselves.
     
  6. Frogman

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    Jailminister,
    I have always heard this taught as you say. But I have not understood it.

    I mean I view the fornication as occurring even in the adulterous relationship, unless the couple refrains.

    So, is the act of remarriage adultery or the immorality?

    Help me to understand the position you believe because I have tried to study this according to what many preachers around me teach and I have not understood it in the same way as presented.

    Thank you.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  7. Helen

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    OK, let me run by you what happened in my life. I was married to my high school sweetheart when I was 24. Eighteen months later our only birth child was born. I found out later that before this child was a year old my husband had started a series of affairs and 'encounters' that went on for about 17 or 18 of the 20 years we were married. In the meantime, we adopted five other children, all special case. He was head usher in the church and star of the church baseball team. He was loved by many people and his reputation in his work as a contractor was such that people would wait five years for a house by him.

    In 1991, July 4, he told me he was leaving. He told me he wanted to spend time alone with the Lord. Within a week he was living with his latest model. He did not pay child support until the judge forced him to a year later when the divorce HE filed for was finalized. I pleaded for him to come back. The children needed him and I still loved him. He refused counselling after the first session with me. After the first year of his absence, the children did not hear from him again.

    When he left, the six of them were ages 6 to 17. That was 1991.

    I didn't even talk to a man except on a professional basis for years.

    In 1998, Barry Setterfield asked me to edit a paper he was writing. I refused as his field was not mine in science. He already knew about me and my work as an editor, however, and was pretty persistent. So I accepted and the result is here:
    http://www.setterfield.org/vacuum.html (it went through a later revision, thus the later date).

    During that autumn, one of my sons had to be arrested. Barry, 12000 miles away in Australia, prayed me through it. One daughter was raped. Barry prayed me through it. Sometimes he would leave me in tears with my sides hurting from laughing at his crazy humor. We talked about our mutual faith and about the frustrations and difficulties in caring for an autistic relative (his sister and my youngest son) full-time. By that winter, he had become a friend and brother in Christ close to my heart. He had never been married and never planned to. I had been divorced and was not sure it was right for me to be remarried. And since we were 12,000 miles apart, no problem!

    Problem.

    I was starting to love and appreciate deeply someone I had never seen. He started talking to some pastors he deeply respected about our situation. I did not start asking until much later as I had no intention of getting that serious with anyone!

    Look at 1 Corinthians 7:15. My ex may have claimed to be Christian, but his lifestyle and decisions declared otherwise. He left. Thoroughly and completely. About a month after our divorce was final, he was married to the lady he ran off to be with. He didn't even tell the kids ahead of time to prepare them. We found out by accident after. The Bible says I was not bound. What does that mean? Partially bound? Not able to be married again? Totally free as if I had never been married or was widowed? If one is not bound, one is not bound, period. I was not bound to that marriage and was therefore free as any single person is free.

    Barry and I were married on October 21, 2000. God has used this marriage as one of the most enormous healing things I have ever seen for me, for the kids, and for others who were so stunned by the divorce years ago.

    My oldest son has now told us he is no longer afraid to get married; he has seen what a godly marriage is. Our oldest daughter is already married but spending great amounts of time here some days, literally soaking up the sort of home life with a loving father that she never knew. Even my youngest, my profoundly retarded and autistic son, walks up to Barry and drapes an arm over his shoulders or hugs him.

    There's a lot more in terms of the good this marriage has done. There is a lot more in terms of the emotional hell I went through, as well as the kids, for twenty years of marriage to a person who was two people -- the outer hypocrite and the inner run-around.

    God has indeed restored the years the locusts ate. I have NO doubts about the blessings on our marriage or that it was fully in God's will. I did not know my heart could open like this again. I did not know what a good marriage was like. I did not know I could love or be loved this way. I did not know I could be so full of joy and thanksgiving every day of my life.
     
  8. Jailminister

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    So, is the act of remarriage adultery or the immorality?
    Yes, it is, but the question you need to ask behind that is it forgivable. Yes, but only because we have a merciful God.
    God always intended one man for one woman and He meant that. Sex is only allowed for marriage and marriage is for life. That is why the qualifications for a pastor(not necessarily a preacher) and deacon are "a husband of ONE wife".

    Now as for a fornication goes, It is sex before marriage. Adultery is having sex with someone else that is not your spouse. While adultery is sin, it is not a reason for divorce. In fact even fornication is not a reason for divorce, but because Moses allowed it, Jesus allowed it.
    I know you know that adultery is even having lustful thoughts about someone who is not your spouse, so we all have sinned. Thank God for His mercy. Does that give us a license to sin? NO. God looks upon our hearts, and loves us and corrects us.
     
  9. Jailminister

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    Helen, The term bound means that you do not have to live with him if he leaves. You had a mess and the mess was getting worst and apparently you were not the problem. But you had a problem. That is when God stepped in and Gave you grace. You asked God for help and your heart was sincers and contrite and our Loving Merciful God saw His child hurting and gave mercy. I am glad that when I fall God doesn't make stay down. He just wants us to get on ours knees before we get up.
    I am glod you shared your story and I am glad for His mercy. God has blessed you.
     
  10. Artimaeus

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    Divorce is a sin (on somebody's part). If A divorces B they are not free to remarry. If A or B does get remarried it is a sin but, then the orhter party is free to remarry without it being a sin because the possibility of reconciliation is gone. This is definitely a preference on my part and not a conviction as I do not have a strong handle on this whole divorce thing.
     
  11. KimS

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    Helen,

    Thank you for sharing that story. It offers a lot of hope and is really appreciated.

    Kim [​IMG]
     
  12. Daniel David

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    Helen, the Scriptures do agree. We have been down this road before and I do not wish to dig up any negative feelings on the matter.
     
  13. Loren B

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    Helen, I agree with the Scripture. You are not bound!! Praise God.
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    Thanks for opening your heart and sharing your story. Some (DD and Jail) do not agree with our position on divorce and remarriage. That is their privilege. Sad. But their right.

    IF you do not believe divorce is EVER proper, you must begin a long convoluted interpretation to try to explain Jesus and Paul's clear-cut exceptions. Bill Gothardites (a sub sect of Christianity fast dying out) are taught such mythical arguments. I deny them.

    KimS asked a legitimate question that WILL bring up hurts.

    So I would suggest to her (and others) to borrow a couple books on the divorce issue in fundamentalism:

    Bill Gothard's "Rebuilder Manual" espouses his side
    Guy Duty "Divorce and Remarriage" espouse my side

    Hope that helps.
     
  15. Frogman

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    So, is the act of remarriage adultery or the immorality?
    Yes, it is, but the question you need to ask behind that is it forgivable. Yes, but only because we have a merciful God.
    God always intended one man for one woman and He meant that.[Agreed, Jesus said in the beginning this was not so in regards to Moses' writing of divorce]. Sex is only allowed for marriage and marriage is for life.[Agreed] That is why the qualifications for a pastor(not necessarily a preacher) and deacon are "a husband of ONE wife".[Yes and I can see your point for the preacher but that he is excluded from ordination, is that how you believe as well? Or divorce would cause his need to remove himself from the pastorship? Are these right?].

    Now as for a fornication goes, It is sex before marriage. Adultery is having sex with someone else that is not your spouse. While adultery is sin, it is not a reason for divorce. [This is the distinction I have trouble seeing. I have tried to study this independently, but confess I have had the problem disntinguishing these. I understand the point you make and am not able to say I disagree. Just that I am in need of more study for a greater understanding of this distinction]. In fact even fornication is not a reason for divorce, but because Moses allowed it, Jesus allowed it. [I agree with you in this also].
    I know you know that adultery is even having lustful thoughts about someone who is not your spouse, so we all have sinned.[Yes]. Thank God for His mercy. Does that give us a license to sin? NO. God looks upon our hearts, and loves us and corrects us.[Agreed].

    My difficulty brother is not that I do not agree with this teaching as you present, but I have had problems understanding the reason for the distinction between fornication---before and adultery---after in regards to these are the same act. I would say from your discussion that the way these are viewed are positional and related to the marriage institution.

    Do you place any restriction on one or the other party having entered into a marriage knowing the past of their spouse as to say later this cannot be used as Biblical grounds to divorce?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  16. Daniel David

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    I know of Gothard's position, but do not actually agree with it.

    He teaches that the exception clause referred to a woman prior to marriage. Although valid, I don't take that exact position.

    The issue is never about one's personal experience or story. The issue is what Scripture says.

    I don't have to do any reworking of what Christ or Paul said for my position. On the contrary, it is the Erasmian view that must completely ignore issues that surround divorce (such as what the Scriptures teach about forgiveness, revenge, etc). I take that all into account.
     
  17. Frogman

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    Perhaps a gospel aspect called reconciliation???

    That is what I believe.

    BTW, in my last post the words found in [] are my poor attempt to distinguish my reply from jailminister's post. :rolleyes:
    Bro. Dallas
     
  18. LadyEagle

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    God divorced Israel.
     
  19. Frogman

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    Isaiah 50.1
     
  20. Jailminister

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    Bro Bob said
    Bro Bob, I am seting here scratching my head and wondering what I said that you would say is "sad". What I said was bible and correct. There is nothing "sad" about that. I just thank God he is merciful in our failures.

    Bro dallas: the Bible says
    1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    If the 2 were the same thing then why would God name them as being different here.
    Here is the definitions of the two:
    Fornication 1. Unlawful sexual intercourse on the part of an unmarried person; the act of such illicit sexual intercourse between a man and a woman as does not by law amount to adultery. &hand; In England, the offense, though cognizable in the ecclesiastical courts, was not at common law subject to secular prosecution. In the United States it is indictable in some States at common law, in others only by statute. Whartyon.

    Adultery: 1. The unfaithfulness of a married person to the marriage bed; sexual intercourse by a married man with another than his wife, or voluntary sexual intercourse by a married woman with another than her husband. [25]

    &hand; It is adultery on the part of the married wrongdoer. The word has also been used to characterize the act of an unmarried participator, the other being married. In the United States the definition varies with the local statutes. Unlawful intercourse between two married persons is sometimes called double adultery; between a married and an unmarried person, single adultery.

    You see they are different.
     

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