Questions about Divorce?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    Questions about Divorce?

    Should Pastors who are divorced be told to step down or should they be able to continue to be Pastors?

    Why is the Divorce rate so high for Churches?

    When is it allowed to get a Divorce by the Bible?

    I ask that because how can a Pastor who has been divorced preach to me or you about how to handle your household when he didnt handle his. I think that as Christians we should set examples and I am getting so sad a how many ministers now a day just get divorced and think thats ok. :0*(
     
  2. Eliyahu

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    Divorce is a sin which should be disciplined in the churches.
    But the divorced believers can be forgiven after some period of discipline and can be re-accepted.
    However, the Elders or Deacons cannot continue their ministry even though they can remain as believers inside the churches.
    Pastor may be understood as a teaching Elder though there is some deviation from the NT truth.
     
  3. Andre

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    hoo boy....here goes......

    I do not know if the Scriptures clearly indicate that a divorced person cannot be a pastor. Perhaps there is a clear scriptural admonition and your point is grounded in such scriptures. Fine - I cannot argue with that.

    The problem with divorce is that it is an event that gets legally documented - it is a highly unambiguous, specific act.

    What about a pastor that does not take care of his body. I see this one guy on TV and I would not be surprised if his gravitational field would cause parishioners to enter into permanent orbit. I am being heavy-handed for a reason. If you think my remark is insensitive, then please consider how divorced people feel when they are pointed out as moral failures. An overweight believer is no less in sin than a divorced person. This is not an argument that divorce is OK, just an appeal for consistency.

    Why is the divorce rate so high? I speculate as follows:

    1. Christian culture overly mystifies sex - it is a forbidden fruit that can only be accessed in marriage. Am I arguing for pre-marital sex? No I am not. But I am suggesting that we need to give unmarried believers, especially young ones, a better model for what married sexuality is all about. The hidden message we presently impart is this: wait until you are married and then you can have the wild sex. I think this a recipe for trouble. Now perhaps this more of a problem for males. One cannot underestimate the appeal of sex to a young man (and maybe woman) - it is a powerful force indeed.

    2. Our culture generally is exceedingly incompetent at training for marriage and this influences people in the church as well. Romance is over-hyped to an insane degree. Anybody who has been married for a while will know the reality. Getting married requires no preparation except what are often perfunctory marriage preparation courses that are really just a formality.

    I will not give my views on if and when divorce is scripturally allowed. Perhaps in another post.
     
  4. skypair

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    No. As someone has already commented, such don't know how to make relationships work. Even living with Christ is not always easy.

    Worldliness. Wrong spouse or overwhelming temptation later. This is experience speaking, BTW. Married for the wrong reasons or/and can't be a good witness of the Christian-Christ relationship any longer.

    Adultery.

    He can't and you are right. Obviously, if we all look back at our lives there will be sins that we wish we could "take back." But we are not to dwell on the past but look forward to our "high calling in Christ." Maybe those preachers have "learned something" but you know they will always have that "soft spot" for the sin they have already committed, right?

    skypair
     
  5. webdog

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    No...and depends. If his wife ran off with someone, I see no reason that he should have to step down.
    The divorce rate is high for everybody, and churches are made up of people :)
    Adultery or abuse
    If the pastor's wife has lustful thoughts about someone, and acts out on them defiling the marriage bed, how did the husband not "handle their household"? How can he be blamed for her sin?
    It is sad if they are "just getting divorced" for the sake of just getting divorced. If either party has cheated, the divorce is warranted and ok.

    I see plenty of single pastors, yet the requirements laid forth in Scripture state "must be the husband of one wife". Why is this view OK...while divorce is taboo :confused:
     
  6. TaliOrlando

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    Totally understand what you are saying. In using your example: An overweight person cannot preach on loosing weight because he is not living it. My thing is this, if a Pastor cannot rule over his home... then how on earth is he to rule over a Church? It just doesnt make sense. Now I know of Divorced Brothers and Sisters in the lord who have re-married, repented and have had much spiritual healings. They have even understood that they were wrong by divorcing because its wrong and are now being used by the Lord. I am simply speaking about Pastors who are in the pulpit preaching, selling, giving counseling ext.. and cannot even control the order in their homes. This is exactly like an overweight person giving you advise on how to loose weight. We have to apply to word to our self before we can preach it to another person. Thats all I was saying... it has become an excuse in body of Christ to just divorce if it dont go right. What example are we giving to the world.
     
  7. Sgt. Fury

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    The reason divorce is so common is simple: The Bible's teaching on divorce is not taught from pulpits. Sadly, many preachers would condemn themselves if they did teach it. Preachers don't preach it, and people don't study for themselves, so they don't know. Their lack of knowledge creates a vacuum which gets filled with worldly teaching on the subject, and results in them being at odds with the word of God.

    The Bible's teaching on divorce is simple, though not easy.

    Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

    Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

    Mar 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
    Mar 10:12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.


    Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

    1Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
    1Co 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.


    Lots of people have a hard time with these verses due to the situations they find themselves in, but these Scriptures are not hard to understand. Application can be hard, though...

    Even in the case of fornication, divorce is never commanded, though it is allowed. The innocent party is allowed to remarry. The guilty one is not.
     
  8. donnA

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    My husband and I have discussed this several times, we always get comments on our 27 yr marriage, people keep saying wow, thats rare today, not so much we know people at church who've been married 50 or 60 yrs even. I(we) think one of the main reasons we see so much divorce is selfishness. People want to put themselves first, take care of #1. Like me thinking I am the more important one in our marriage and I'm all the really matters (not). If people believed and treat their spouse as if they(the spouse) were they the more important one in the marriage, and sought to take care of their spouse, and each of the 2 did this, then both would be treated as if they were important, there would be no need of selfishness. If people understood their spouse is not responsible if you aren't happy anymore, that your in this together through thick and thin, they could overcome some of the difficulties and stick out the tough times. I think what it all really means is, you have to love your spouse more then yourself. Marriage is work and sacrifice, today people believe it either comes easy and works well for me or I'm dumping it. How much could you have loved your spouse in the first place if it is that easy to throw them away without sacrificing yourself for them.
    In our marriage I know I'm important to my husband and I'd rather be important to him then to me. We love and take care of each other no matter the personal cost.
    If preachers taught this, taught scripture, then we'd see fewer divorces in our churches. But many live just as undedicated to God and His word as they do to their marriage.
     
  9. trustitl

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    Instead of asking if pastors should be told to step down maybe we need to ask if we are doing the right thing by putting them in a place to step down from. Too many christians are like the Jews who wanted a King. The pastor has become the protestant "priest".
    Jesus said to not call anybody father or rabbi, for you are all brothers. Perhaps today he would add pastor. We need to let men pastor as the Spirit enables them. If we were doing that, we would not need to make some formal decision about these men. It would be obvious.

    We should not be surprised that the divorce rate is escalating in churches.
    "Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?" I am not pointing out this scripture in reference to the divorced people, but rather our hearts toward marriage and commitment. We don't need to throw out the divorced. We need to throw out the leaven of "divorce is acceptable".

    Divorce was only allowed because of the hardness of peoples hearts.
    Matt. 19:8 "He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."

    Many will say "We are all a bunch of sinners" or "nobody's perfect" in regards to having leaders in the church being held to high standards. Thankfully that was not what Paul told Timothy.

    I Tim. 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
     
  10. SeekingHisTruth

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    Divorce is a sin no matter when it is done or for what reason. What God has joined together man is not to separate for ANY reason. Divorce was granted by "man" not by God.

    But just as any other sin it can be forgiven.

    If the man is the one that seeks the divorce from his wife I find it hard to imagine he could still be in position to serve as pastor. If the wife leaves him I'm not sure.

    Divorce, especially among the pastorate is a very touchy and sensative subject.
     
  11. RockRambler

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    And what if the divorce and remarriage occurred before the pastor became a pastor or was even saved?
     
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    Excellent topic by the way. Rather than to air my personal views I will ask some questions as to the advice they have given.


    HP: Scripture gives us direct guidelines for those in positions of leadership. Certain sins are indeed mentioned and others are not. What gives us the right to say that one sin does not or should not affect the office if Scripture is silent? Do you have a verse that indicates that overweight persons are indeed gluttons and as such still sinners, and therefore should be kept out of the pulpit? Do you have a verse that says that one sin is just as bad as another when it comes to leadership and that no sin should carry more weight on leadership than another?



    HP: I know what I am up against here but the word in Scripture is fornication NOT adultery. Jesus used two specific GK words in the same passage, one being adultery and the other being fornication. Did He not understand that one is not the other?



    HP: Says who?



    HP: Excellent post :thumbs: ....but it does not really address the OP directly.:) (As you notice I am not answering any questions either)



    When is it allowed to get a Divorce by the Bible?


    HP: Same question to you with yet another question. When is abuse stated in Scripture as to be grounds for a divorce?



    HP: Excellent questions and post. :thumbs:



    HP: An excellent name by the way. I as well desire to be called a seeker of truth!

    You are exceedingly correct in what you say. :thumbs: Should it be any reason why I am listening and asking questions instead of giving my personal opinion?
     
  13. Salty

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    If we were to substitute "a pastor who previously was a drunk ..."
    How can that pastor preach to me about the evils of drinking?

    Its funny, when a pastor gives a testimony of the delivering him from drinking, we all say "Amen - Praise the Lord"

    I suppose all I'm saying is lets be consistent.

    Salty
     
  14. Sgt. Fury

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    Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

    "Whosoever" is pretty inclusive here, just as it is in John 3:16. It means anyone and everyone, Christian or not. That's why Jesus' disciples understood this as a hard saying in the next verse.

    Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

    Marriage is a far more serious affair than many think. Like I said before, it's not a subject correctly covered in many pulpits, therefore the people are ignorant.

    God's law for marriage is stated jujst a few verses before the above text.

    Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


    Marriage is one man with one woman for life. Fornication is a broad term that covers all forms of sexual immorality including adultery. It is the only Biblical reason for divorce, though divorce is never commanded.

    Don't get me wrong. I've not always taken marriage as seriously as I should, either. I'm not speaking from a vacuum. The important thing is to seek out what the Bible says about the subject. What anyone thinks of me personally is a non-issue. Of course, I'm not trying to make anyone angry, either. I'm just trying to speak as the Bible speaks to the best of my ability.
     
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: I disagree. I know how my answer is perceived by many, but I for one believe fornication carries with it a distinct different understanding from the word adultery. So does Blackstones legal dictionary. If you go into any courtroom, the words carry significantly different meanings.

    Jesus was not ignorant of the distinction either, for He used both words in specific ways. Fornication describes sex between unmarried individuals. When an unmarried individual has sex with a married individual it is fornication on the part of the unmarried and adultery on the part of the married individual. There is some cases in some places that in the latter case, because one is married, that it is classified as adultery on both their parts. Just the same, I see it as unwise and illogical to conclude that there is not a clear distinction between fornication and adultery clearly understood by men of reason as well as Jesus.
     
  16. Sgt. Fury

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    So what would constitute fornication on the part of the wife in Matt 19:9?
     
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Excellent question. This is a bit involved but I will try and cut to the chase. I addressed the issue in a post some time ago as follows.



    First one needs to clearly recognize that the exception clause is found in only one of the gospels, and not even hinted at in any of the others. It is found only in Matt., noted as the gospel to the Jews. There is clear evidence why Jesus would grant an exception to the Jews when one understands their customs. The customs of the Jews were distinctly different that that of any other nation and for this reason I believe Jesus mentioned the exception clause to them alone.

    The Jews considered an espoused couple as husband and wife. Read Scripture concerning Mary and Joseph and you will find this bore out. Once engaged, the only way they could separate was by a writing or bill of divorcement. If once engaged or upon the marriage bed, one found out that the other had lied or deceived their partner into believing that they were a virgin, the other partner had the right to give them a writing or bill of divorcement upon the grounds of sex before marriage, or fornication. It was to this specific situation that Jesus spoke the exception clause to a Jewish audience that understood exactly what he was speaking about. Jesus gave no indication whatsoever that apart from the circumstance of sex before marriage, and a fallacious and deceptive presentation of ones expressed state of purity before marriage upon which the marriage vows were firmly based, was the exception clause granted. If there was no such deceptive presentation as to ones state of purity found evident, once the marriage was consummated, no reason for divorce was ever expressed or granted by Christ.
     
  18. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    Sorry! Double post
     

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