Questions for the anti-Lordship Salvation people..

Let me start first with a statement, that I think correctly sets the point of division, in terms that all can understand.

Ultimately, the debate of LS vs. Non LS, comes down to this> Is discipleship an optional second step after salvation, or is salvation the starting point of being a disciple?

For instance, let me show this in two sentences>

L.S.> A saved man will follow Christ and grow in righteousness.

Non L.S.> A saved man should follow Christ and grow in righteousness. (or alternatively, "A saved man "in most cases" will follow Christ and grow in righteousness in his life")

Please keep comments as brief as possible. I know this can be a complex subject.

 

Havensdad! Good grief! More questions?

Four questions were posted at the start of this thread and three NLSers have answered them. Now, instead of interacting with our answers, you have more questions!

Interact with our answers on this thread, please. Otherwise, if you have more questions, start another thread. (Can't believe I'm recommending someone to start another thread about Lordship Salvation!)

:BangHead: :tonofbricks: :smilewinkgrin:

 

LOL! Hey, there are 4 pages of responses...I am not ready to do a doctoral thesis! You might point out one particular post that you found particularly poignant?

 

Well, let me offer an answer. Salvation is the starting point of being a disciple.

Let me keep it simple too.

A disciple = A Christian

A non-disciple = A non-Christian.

 

Ditto!

This Lordship Salvation seems to be just another form of Calvinism.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

It is not even close.

 

Are they not both based on the idea of the predestination of the believer in the sovereignty of God vs. free will of man debate? If not then help me to understand where the Lordship Salvation idea comes from that regeneration preceeds repentance.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

I can live with that. JM himself in his book said this subject lands square on soteriology.

 

While there are some who hold to what is called "Lordship Salvation" who are reformed not all are. This is not tied into predestination. Predestination whether defined by regular baptists or particular baptists stand alone. As does the biblical position that if Christ is not your Lord you are not saved.

 

You mean you didn't think my responses were poignant?:saint:

 

This is mis-leading at best.
The word "disciple" literally means "follower."
The word "Christian" literally means "follower of Christ."

Therefore, who can disagree with you? Obviously a Christian is a disciple by the strict definitions of the words, or by their literal interpretations.
But LS advocates do not define "disciple" simply as "follower." Their definition includes hard stringent conditions, almost impossible for even the most dedicated of Christians to keep, and certainly impossible for a new Christian to keep. It is impossible for one to equate salvation and Lordship (discipleship) as defined by LS advocates in the same boat. They are two separate topics or stages of growth.

 

:laugh: :thumbs: Awesome.

There is Lordship Salvation as defined by JM.

 

To see what MacArthur means, let him flesh out his own phrase offered above: "…and yield to Christ's authority…"

“…the view that for salvation a person must trust Jesus Christ as his Savior from sin and must commit himself to Christ as Lord of his life, submitting to his sovereign authority.”
John MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus (p33,34)

IMO, the underlined portion is the result of salvation, not a condition for salvation!

Rob

 

You have got it correct :thumbs:

 

Really? Then why do LS proponents believe in giving up their sins to receive the Holy Spirit, i.e., before regeneration?

 

Any good that we do that honors God must be a work of the Holy Spirit, whether a person espouse LS or not.

On what basis then may I do good that honors God? Am I capable of myself to do good that honors God?

"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" (Gal 5:22-23, NLTse, emphasis added)

I suggest that whoever made this comment address their understanding of the Holy Spirit in the life of God's people.

 

You missed the point that good works don't require regeneration. I don't think anybody will argue that there is nothing good from within us, but when an atheist helps a child avoid being hit by a car, the "work" most definately honors God despite the condition of the person.

 

The motive would selflessness, which I believe honors God. I'm sure after the fact selfishness may set in, but the most important commandment is to love God, and the second most important is to love our neighbors as ourselves.