R.C. Sproul a preterist? J.I. Packer a nihilist?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Felix, Jul 15, 2003.

  1. Felix

    Felix
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    Please help.

    I have recently heard (from trustworthy sources :confused: ) that R.C. Sproul has crossed over to believe preterist views which states that Christ's second return occured in 70 A.D. I find it hard to believe, but if it is true, can somebody direct me where I could find some official information on this issue?

    Also (from the same source :confused: ), I heard that J.I. Packer believes in Nihilism, the view that holds that the greatest punishment God can give a sinner is not eternal torment in hell but taking his being (body, soul) out of existance. Basicaly a denial of the existance of hell. Is there anyone out here who can direct me to some sources regarding this?

    Thank you very much and I appreciate your help in advance. [​IMG]

    God bless you

    Felix
     
  2. Tim

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    I know that R.C. Sproul wrote a book about eschatology some years ago that left the door open to preterism, and he took a lot of heat for that. As a partial-preterist myself, that book was a breath of fresh air to me amidst the constant onslaught of dispensational dogma. But I imagine you see it differently.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  3. BrianT

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    Tim is correct. Sproul is NOT a full preterist, (Sproul still believes in a future coming of Christ) but his book "The Last Days According to Jesus" describes and explains the partial-preterist viewpoint. It is an excellent, excellent book, even if you already know you disagree with partial preterism. I highly recommend it.

    I've never heard that about Packer, and I suspect it is not true. Ask for references.
     
  4. Sola-Scriptura

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    I think it was called THE LAST DAYS ACCORDING TO JESUS. He didn't strongly argue FOR Preterism per se. He seemed rather to be facilitating the arguments in favor of it more than passionately defending. I found it hard to tell if he had in fact embraced it or was just thinking out loud. The information presented was informative and does challenge traditional thinking in these matters. He focused on the "time frame indicators" that we have always mostly ignored, such as:


    Revelation 1:1
    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place.

    Rev. 22:6
    Then he said to me, "These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy[1] prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

    Matthew 23:36
    Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

    There is no way it can be said that Jesus Christ has come already and be consistent with scripture.However, that is what full preterists believe. R. C. Sproul, from what I remember, rejected this extreme view.
     
  5. aefting

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    Concerning Packer, check out this ARTICLE from Christianity Today. In short, I think the answer is no. You may be thinking of John Stott, who does lean towards Annihilationism from what I understand.
     
  6. BrianT

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    Yes, much of his book is spent discussing the differences between full and partial preterism (which Sproul sometimes calls "radical" and "moderate" preterism), pointing out that partial preterism still believes in a future coming of Christ, resurrection, judgement, etc. He spends quite a bit of time describing but disagreeing with James Stuart Russell, a full preterist author from the 19th century.
     
  7. KenH

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    I am not an annihilationist, but that is not a denial of the existence of hell. Edward Fudge is a huge advocate of annihilationism, probably the best popular writer on the subject. Annihilationism is certainly a viable Biblical interpretation. It is different from the viewpoint of fundamentalist Baptists, but it is viable nonetheless.
     
  8. Grasshopper

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    "The Last Days According To Jesus" is an outstanding book. It basically is partial Pret. vs. Full Pret. Sproul seems to agree with other partials that 70AD was "a" coming of Christ but not "the" coming. I disagree, but it is a great book.

    There is no way it can be said that Jesus Christ has come already and be consistent with scripture.However, that is what full preterists believe.

    It depends on the nature of His coming. If it is a physical coming then no, He hasn't returned. If on the other hand it is the same nature of "comings" throughout the Old Testament, then He did return just like He said He would and when He said He would. This would be the "consistent" view.
    If He hasn't returned then Partial Prets, and non-Prets have major problems with the "time-indicators" throughout the New Testament.
     
  9. go2church

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    Sproul has always been a partial preterist, the book he wrote, IMO leans more toward post-mill. Packer is not a nihilist by any stretch of the imagination. Stout is the person you are thinking of.
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Looks like your "trustworthy" source is mistaken and maligning two good men.

    While I might differ with them over details, I count them as orthodox believers and hope the posts on this thread galvanizes this opinion in the mind of all.
     
  11. Graceforever

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    Christ, in fact returned after his death... He told Martha not to touch him, for he hadn't yet ascended to the Father..... Later, in the upper room, he told Thomas to touch His hands and His side... Of course, this was after Christ went into Heaven and returned again…. He had to fulfil His High Priestly duties... He went into heaven, into the Holy of Holies, and performed the ritual of a High Priest, once and for all time.... Of course, He is now sitting on the right hand of the Father in Heaven....

    There has been NO resurrection of the dead, not since Christ rose from the grave after His burial & resurrection, with over 500 of his saints...
     
  12. LandonL

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    Felix, I believe you mean annihilationism, as the others have said. Nihilism is something completely different. It was founded on Nietzsche's remarking that "God is dead." Therefore, no man can even be a Christian and a Nihilist.
     
  13. Felix

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    Fair enough! I am one of those who greatly admire both of these great men of God and enjoy their writings. However, these news, as you can imagine were very disturbing to me... I just wanted to find out the truth about both of them. And I am still not sure....

    Thank you

    Felix
     

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