Featured Race Riot Question

Ahem....can I just say that if you believe in Free Will then Zaac is correct. Other people's past actions cannot predict a free agent's future actions.

If you believe in Calvinism, then Sapper Woody is correct. People are totally depraved and will continue to do evil things.

Okay, I'll get me coat...

:tonofbricks:

 

I'm in class on my phone right now. Once I get home, I will add my final.

 

Wow. Phone posted before I was ready. Basically, I'll put my last reply on this topic once I get home.

 

No, but your arguing something I'm not saying does make you wrong.

Firstly, that's not what you asserted before. You said that no matter how well that person has done in the past, the shot chance is 50/50 each time. Secondly, what I am saying includes them, if you understand what I'm saying, which you either don't, refuse to acknowledge, or are just purposely ignoring.

No, that's not what I'm saying. But given those stats, you could grab a random white guy in the 60s, and he'd have a 900% chance to be a racist, as opposed to a random black person.

Not even going to answer this. Already addressed this. I'm not trying to tell any individual that they are going to be a murderer.

I am separating the two, because they aren't one and the same. Otherwise, Africans would have the same culture as blacks in America. So, skin color isn't the problem. It's the culture.

I don't believe that being mean and nasty will make me any more right. Nor do I think I can get my point across any more by being mean and nasty. All I can do is tell you the truth. You can keep twisting what I am saying to tell me I am saying something I am not and accuse me of racism, or you can see the truth, see the problem, and work WITH me to fix it.

I don't know how many times I am going to have to say this. I am not saying that I can walk up to a black man and say to him, "you are more likely to commit murder than a white man." I am saying that if I grabbed a random black man, and a random white man, the black man is 5x as likely to be a murderer. You can't argue this. This is fact. It is not opinion. You can't change this anymore than you can change 2+2=4. It is an absolute.

I just answered this above. Again.

You're off the mark again. That's not what I'm saying.

I cut the rest because each one of your paragraphs argues against something I am not saying. A strawman. You keep contending that I can't go up to someone and tell them that based upon statistics, they will be more likely to rape or murder. I AGREE. But that's not what I am saying at all.

Once again: I am saying that if I grabbed a random black guy, and a random white guy, the black man has 5x more of a chance to be a murderer, and 3x to be a rapist. Again, this is absolute. You cannot argue against it. It's not debatable, it's not opinion, it's fact.

Again, there is a problem. But when I talk about the problem, you call me a racist. That in and of itself is a problem. And one which will not solve anything. Since you are not willing to discuss the problem, and are only interested in pegging me as a racist for saying something I'm not, I am out of the conversation.

 

And it is.

You keep saying that i don't understand what you're saying, but you keep saying the same thing.

He'd have the same chance, 50/50. Either he is a racist, or he isn't.

There's no need to address it as you've already said it.

The problem with that is that you DIDN'T say you were picking a black person who had a bunch of other cultural qualifiers. You said black.

I haven't accused you of racism. You've never come across to me as a racist as the term is defined.

But that IS what you said.

And you just repeated it.

Pure foolishness. You're not doing anything but rehashing what you've already said. And it doesn't become any more true the second or third time.

But that's what you said and resaid.

That absolutely is not an absolute. The only way for that to be an absolute would be for you to grab a random black guy and a random white guy from the measured set that got you your statistic. THEN and only then could your statement have any validity.

Otherwise, if you pick a random black and white person outside that measured sample that gave you your 5Xs and 3Xs, the chance is 50/50. Either they are or not.

Again, you're wrong. That's not debatable. It's not opinion. It's fact.

You're incorrectly using statistics to stereotype. Your statistic only applies for the measured group that gave you the statistic.

It DOES NOT apply for any random white or black person who was not included in the measured set.

You pick a random white or black person outside of that group that gave you your statistic, and both random persons have the same likelihood, 50/50, of having done or not what you said.

Your measured set statistic DOES NOT apply to folks outside that measured set.

Like many on here, when I speak, you see what you want to see. Where Sapper, have I ONCE called you a racist or accused you of racism?

And the problem you and I are having here is the same one that occurs between Blacks and Whites. You hear what you want to hear even though it ain't what I said.

You keep claiming that you haven't said one thing, but you keep repeating that one thing because you think it's the truth.

Yet you keep saying that I've called you a racist, when I have not.

So in closing, let me try this again because I love you. You've got a genuine spirit which seems to be rare on this board.

Statistically speaking, your 5Xs and 3Xs stats, are applicable ONLY to the measured set that gave you the stat.

You can't take that stat for that measured set, and stereotype everything outside that set. It'll statistically be wrong every time.

 

Why don't you guys have a go at this thread?:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=88968

 

Sapper, you have more than made your point. Now all you are doing is being sucked into a no win situation. It's called feed a troll.

 

I hate that problem. :laugh: If I recall correctly, a graduate class or something in Bayesian Statistics spent about three weeks going back and forth on that problem. I wanted to pull my eyes out. :laugh:

 

And we have another vote by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and their only defense is to call me a troll. Classic. :laugh:

 

Please don't feed the trolls!!!!

 

But....

It is so much fun watching him swing from side to side as he answers questions out of both sides of his mouth. And he has the gall and audacity to question our Christianity, over and over again. That is the irony of this troll. He is forever flipping and spinning, and thinks he is holier than all of us put together.

 

First off, I apologize, Zaac, for saying you called me a racist. You didn't actually call me a racist, I inferred it from your comments.

Secondly, we're obviously not going to agree on probability based on the statistics. What I think we can agree on is the past statistics. In 2011, a far greater percentage of the black population committed murder and rape than the percentage of white people who did. I think we're in agreement so far.

Now, not much has changed since 2011. I would wager the numbers are still the same, or close.

Now, hopefully you'll agree with me that based on past statistics, there is a problem. There has to be some variable(s) that are different in one group for that group to have such a higher rate.

The question is, what do we do to make a difference? In all honesty, the only thing I've been able to do while in the military is volunteer for some school programs every once in a while. Before the military, I worked with inner city kids.