Radiometric Dating continued

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by Administrator2, Jan 30, 2002.

  1. Administrator2

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    Jun 30, 2000
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    There are many independent checks on radiometric dating that put
    the techniques beyond doubt. Here is a link to an interesting
    list on these checks. By the way, it is important to note that
    these independent checks preclude the possibility of radioactive
    decay rates having changed in the last few million years, and
    therefore conflict with Setterfields claims that the speed of light
    has changed. Here is the link:

  2. Administrator2

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    Jun 30, 2000
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    Apparently the age of one creosote bush has been dated, probably by
    C-14 dating, at 11,700 years. The following is a news item from
    the Internet.

    "Along an unremarkable stretch of desert on the
    outskirts of town, just off a road named for singing
    cowboy Gene Autry and tucked amid heaps of
    garbage raked by winds strong enough to polish
    granite, Jim Cornett thinks he's found the world's
    oldest living thing.

    Radiocarbon tests now under way may reveal the
    unassuming creosote bush sprouted 11,000 or more
    years ago, the scientist said, meaning it could
    rival in age another creosote bush growing 50
    miles away in the Mojave Desert.

    The scraggly creosote pales in comparison to the
    grandeur of well known ancients like the gnarled
    bristlecone pine and majestic coast redwood.

    Seemingly more dead than alive, the bush isn't big
    and certainly isn't tall. It isn't even very bushy.

    "They're not very exciting," Cornett admitted to a

    What the creosote bush is, Cornett is fairly certain,
    is ancient.

    If confirmed, the bush -- really a 38-foot,
    arrow-straight line of genetically identical bushes
    connected at the roots -- could trump another
    creosote bush, dubbed "King Clone." That bush,
    found in 1980 to be 11,700 years old, is considered
    the oldest living thing on Earth.

    "I don't think anyone ever thought a bush would be
    that old," said Cornett, curator of natural science at
    the Palm Springs Desert Museum.

    In a species that reproduces itself through cloning,
    any individual is theoretically as old as the species.
    Take King's Holly, a rare Tasmanian plant. In 1996,
    scientists found fossil remains of the plant near the
    holly's only known population.

    The fossils were found to be 43,000 years old,
    suggesting the existing plants had grown in that
    location for at least that long.

    A box huckleberry colony in Pennsylvania, spread
    over some 10 square miles, is believed to date back
    as far as 13,000 years.

    In the case of King Clone and the bush now being
    studied, scientists traced one bush, not a population
    -- back in time.

    University of California, Riverside botanist Frank
    Vasek discovered King Clone. Over the millennia, it
    had grown outward into a large ring.

    Vasek, now retired, said he doubted there were any
    creosotes older than King Clone.

    "The way human activity is devastating the area, it is
    unlikely they would survive that onslaught," Vasek

    Tom Van Devender, senior research scientist at the
    Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum in Tucson, Ariz.,
    said the newly found bush could well be older than
    King Clone. And he doesn't believe King Clone is
    as old as scientists claim. He believes it is closer to
    7,500 years old or younger. That's still older than
    the oldest bristlecone by several thousand years.

    Cornett's bush grows differently than the ringlike
    King Clone, thanks, he said, to the merciless winds
    that howl through the northern outskirts of Palm

    There, the wind is strong enough to smooth the
    granite boulders that pepper the garbage-strewn
    landscape and drive the blades of hundreds of
    power-generating windmills in the area. It also gives
    the creosote bush its streamlined shape.

    On this patch of federal land, the bush struggles with
    the wind to grow outward, but none of the sprouts
    that grow from roots fanning out under the coarse
    sand survive -- save those lucky enough to come up
    behind the windbreak formed by the original plant.

    "Every time it puts out a sprout to the side, it gets
    obliterated," Cornett said.

    Over the centuries, the bush has formed a long line
    of clones. When the lead bush dies, it leaves the
    second in the chain to take the brunt of the wind.

    Cornett and his colleagues first spotted the linear
    bush while flying over the northern outskirts of Palm
    Springs. It stuck out like a sore thumb.

    The root samples being tested by Cornett came
    from beneath the soil upwind of the living bush, and
    presumably belonged to a genetically identical
    predecessor that died thousands of years ago. The
    trace remains of roots linking the living and dead
    portions of the bush support that hypothesis,
    Cornett said.

    "This is a spectacular claim, but Cornett is a well
    respected scientist and I would say run with it," said
    Richard Felger, executive director of the Drylands
    Institute in Tucson, Ariz.

    The creosote bush, Larrea tridentata, is the hallmark
    perennial of the warm deserts of North and South
    America. When crushed, or after a rainfall, its small,
    waxy leaves give off the pungent, petroleumlike
    smell that gives it its name."


    [ January 31, 2002: Message edited by: Administrator ]

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