Rapture views

Thank you for the added information.

 

Allan, as I stated in an earlier post, yes, if by a "catch away," then yes. But not all the contemporary baggage.

 

I was working my way through J. Dwight Pentecost's classic work Things To Come when I abandoned Dispensationalism.

He was engaged in too much hermeneutical gymnastics for me.

 

You are, of course, correct. It's not the fact of the rapture, it's the timing. Maybe I'm demanding too much, but it seems to me that one ought to be able to find that clear teaching, just one verse, that says the rapture is pre-trib.

I Thess 4:13-18 doesn't do it. Chapter 5 refers to the "Day of the Lord" which ever dispy I've ever read says is a post-trib event.

Except, of course, the moviemakers who used the reference to a "thief in the night" as a movie title depicting a pre-trib rapture.

I Thess 5:9 "For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." This is cited as a pre-trib rapture text, but it says nothing of the sort. See what I mean?

Then, there's the famous Revelation 4:1, where a voice from heaven told John "Come up hither." Another pre-trib rapture proof text, right? Naw, not clear at all.

TCGreek mentioned reading Pentecost's Things to Come. I read it, and my eyes sorta glazed over.

 

Can you find me one clear teaching, just one verse, that says God is 3 persons and yet 1 God?

If you can't, does that mean the truth of it is not spoken of in scripture?

With Pentacost.. mine did to

 

actually, IF we use that reasoning, then we should all NOT been reformed in sense of following protestant beliefs, and should remain Catholic, as they were teaching grace + works to save for long time before Age of the reformers!

Also, we believe that Bible teaches 2 seperate stages, just 1 actual Second Coming to earth!

 

May I point out that someone no less then RC Sproul does not even believe in a rapture at all.

 

What exactly does RC Sproul believe?

 

RC Sproul said this: "We will meet Christ in the air and share visibly in His triumphal reign over all."

Reference: http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/rapture/

 

I've always wondered how Messiah could be cut off after the 69th week, yet somehow that didn't happen during the 70th week.

That whole chapter concerns the temple and city that would be rebuilt from the ruins of the then present (during Babylonian captivity) city and temple. It begins with the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem and respects the destruction of the same. It makes no mention of another temple. It respects that temple. That's exactly the way Jesus interpreted the vision. In Matthew and Mark He speaks of the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, but in Luke He speaks of Jerusalem being compassed with armies and tells His disciples to get out and never return for it would be made desolate. Yet, people continue to teach that this respects the future. Some of Daniel's prophecies deal with our future, this is not one of them.

 

Just shows us that we ALL see through a glass dimly!

he gets A for Sotierology, but fails to give due to eschatology!

 

...and that because your dispy views, which are defective at the very roots, are not supported by him, right?

I say the man is to be commended for breaking away from popular Baptist error, and having the intestinal fortitude to proclaim the truth; it surely doesn't win him any popularity from 'the many'.

 

:thumbs::applause::laugh::applause:.........

 

...and, what are your conclusions from this research?

 

So, I get the impression that you don't really care what R.C. Sproul has to say on the subject? Well you should! Preterist/Presbyterian R.C. Sproul is a very smart individual I'll have you to know, he actually has a PhD! Dr. R.C. Sproul. Did you know you can receive Table Talk Magazine at the low rate delivered once a month to your door? It's jam-packed with articles by R.C Sproul and R.C. Sproul Jr..

I find that even the numerous TT advertisements (literally every other page) for teaching resources by R.C Sproul and R.C. Sproul Jr. are edifying. What a resource! Do what I did and buy a copy of the Reformation Study Bible and receive a free 3 month trial subscription. As a bonus you can order teaching materials; CDs of sermons, books and such by R.C. Sproul and R.C. Sproul Jr..

There was a time when Dr. R.C. Sproul was a covenant A-Mil. I have actually have been in the same room as Dr. Sproul. Numerous times in fact. Anyway, getting back to Dr. R.C. Sproul, he discovered that Jesus returned when the Roman Army destroyed the Jerusalem Temple in AD 70. Amagine 1800-1900 years after Jesus walked with men, PhD's like R.C. Sproul made the discovery that 99.6% of all Bible Prophecy has already been fufilled! You know, if you read like I have the book by R.C. titled The Last Day's According to Jesus you will be so amazed by the writing that you will, you must become a Preterist. Not only that, R.C. Sproul and R.C. Sproul Jr. will like you. Nobody knows the Bible and Bible prophecy like R.C. Sproul! Remember, don't trust yourself to understand the plain common everyday meaning of the words of the Holy writ, let R.C. figure it all out for you! He's done all of the heavy lifting so you don't have to!

 

Well when you read in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation 'timeline' verses like those below, it becomes pretty clear that something is woefully defective within dispy eschatology:

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24:34

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13:30

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21:32

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

Compare with:

(26 And the vision of the evenings and mornings which hath been told is true: but shut thou up the vision; for it belongeth to many days to come. Dan 8
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel; for the words are shut up and sealed till the time of the end. Dan 12)

 

So Sproul is a partial Preterist?

 

Yes he could be categorized as that.