RE: Can a man sin a sin unto death after being born again#2

No, Christ sits on the right hand of throne of God, in his present resurrected body, interceding for me. He dwells in us only by the power of the Holy Spirit. Let's make that clear. Christ is not literally in me; his body won't fit. It is the Holy Spirit that dwells within each and every believer. And no Christ does not sin.

Jesus will live forever and so will I and every other saved person. The unsaved will live in a state of perpetual death, or separation from God. They will "live" in the respect that they will be conscious. Death is separation, and they will indeed be separated from God, the source of all life.

Yes I can. The same way that any other person. My parents have never committed adultery and both of them are not saved. It doesn't even take the power of the Holy Spirit from abstaining from adultery. It simply takes a mind that says: "No, I won't do such a thing."

Dualism is heresy. It leads to the belief that all flesh is evil and only that which is of the spirit is good. It ends up denying the incarnation and the humanity of Christ. Is that what you believe? Do you deny that Christ was a man?

 

[originally posted by Charles: quote=DHK]Don't really have to read the rest of the post.[/quote] First of all what he is tring to say is a born again Christain cannot sin inwardly [/quote]
That is a heresy. Every sin is an inward sin. Show me an outward sin that is not an inward sin and I'll show you a venial sin that is not a mortal sin. Both will send you to Hell.

You are hung up on Scripture that you don't understand, and admit that you are not saved. So why should I expect you to understand such Scriptures? Suffice it to say that the verse is not speaking of one single solitary sin.

If you don't know what a sn unto death is, then how would you know what one is and what one isn't? You are not qualified to speak on the subject, and wouldn't not recognize one if it came along. It is not your worry, it is God's. All that you need to be concerned with is yourself. There is no sin that you have committed that God cannot forgive. And that is enough for you to know.

I believe that you are thinking of John and not Paul. The verse is 1John 2:1. John says that it is God's will that we sin not. Then he says "if any one sin we have an advocate with Jesus Christ, the Righteous." He wrote that knowing that we will sin. We are not sinless. We do have a sin nature and we will sin. Thus Christ our intercessor sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us. Isn't it wonderful that he does that on our behalf!

What is a "soul witch"? :laugh:

Who says? Charles that is only your opinion based on a misunderstanding of Scripture.

It makes you very illogical. What is a “sin inwardly?” Is this Roman Catholic theology? Have you divided yourself into three different parts that you can see and show us in a show and tell demonstration?

That is what you think the Bible teaches; but it is not what the Bible teaches.

Read again. That is not the work, but rather the fruit of the spirit. There is a difference.

And how will you do that, and which spirit will you sow to? Your own spirit? The devil’s spirit? the spirit of anger? What spirit? What spirit will you sow to?

 

The lord knoweth how to deliver the GODLY out of TEMPTATIONS, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: But chiefly them that walk after THE FLESH in the LUST of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not a railing accusation against them before the lord. But these as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness,as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of ADULTERY, and that CANNOT CEASE FROM SIN; beguiling unstable SOULS: an heart they exercised with covetous practice; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray following the way of Balaam the son of Boser, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness OF THE PROPHETS These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they SPEAK GREAT SWELLING WORDS OF VANITY, they ALLURE THROUGH THE LUST OF THE FLESH, through much wantoness, those that WERE CLEAN ESCAPED FROM THEM WHO LIVE IN ERROR. 11 petterChapter 2

 

I do not change Scripture. But I do study the Greek from which it was taken. I also have many other resources. The Bible does say: "Let him that is ignorant be ignorant still." If one refuses to study he cannot be helped.

 

Do you know what a metaphor is? Do you understand them? They are not to be taken literally Bob. That is what got the RCC in trouble with their belief in transubstantiation. Do you believe that too? Jesus said "I am the door." Do you picture him as a piece of wood to knock upon him also?
This body indeed will die, and Christ will raise it on that great day.
The bread of life is simply a metaphor referring to the eternal life that he gives us at the time of salvation. So what is your point?

The Scripture that was quoted was "whosoever is born of God does not sin." That is what I was referring to.

I don't say any Scripture is a lie. You should know better than that.

I said those remarks in reference to the verse quoted: "Whosoever is born again cannot sin." I think if you read my post more carefully you will understand what I was saying. I also believe you are answering a post directed to Charles and not you.

 

Are you still playing games Bob? And why the diversion from the former topic? "He that eateth this bread shall never die." Yes, a metaphor. Are you going to deny this? But why the diversion? What has this got to do with your concept of inward sin, etc.?

Like you finally realized at the end of the last post you were taking my answer to Charles and answering it as if directed to you. Charles was changing the meaning of this verse because he doesn't understand it. But you may be in the same boat.

I never denied Gal.2:20 to be true. This realize, however: Christ indwells the believer by the power of the Holy Spirit. He said so Himself when he promised to send the Comforter to us. Christ lives in his resurrected body. When we accept Christ as our Saviour, He comes and indwells by the power of His Holy Spirit. That is Biblical teaching.

 

First of all what he is tring to say is a born again Christain cannot sin inwardly [/quote]
That is a heresy. Every sin is an inward sin. Show me an outward sin that is not an inward sin and I'll show you a venial sin that is not a mortal sin. Both will send you to Hell.
You are hung up on Scripture that you don't understand, and admit that you are not saved. So why should I expect you to understand such Scriptures? Suffice it to say that the verse is not speaking of one single solitary sin.
If you don't know what a sn unto death is, then how would you know what one is and what one isn't? You are not qualified to speak on the subject, and wouldn't not recognize one if it came along. It is not your worry, it is God's. All that you need to be concerned with is yourself. There is no sin that you have committed that God cannot forgive. And that is enough for you to know.
I believe that you are thinking of John and not Paul. The verse is 1John 2:1. John says that it is God's will that we sin not. Then he says "if any one sin we have an advocate with Jesus Christ, the Righteous." He wrote that knowing that we will sin. We are not sinless. We do have a sin nature and we will sin. Thus Christ our intercessor sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us. Isn't it wonderful that he does that on our behalf!
What is a "soul witch"? :laugh:
Who says? Charles that is only your opinion based on a misunderstanding of Scripture.
It makes you very illogical. What is a “sin inwardly?” Is this Roman Catholic theology? Have you divided yourself into three different parts that you can see and show us in a show and tell demonstration?
That is what you think the Bible teaches; but it is not what the Bible teaches.
Read again. That is not the work, but rather the fruit of the spirit. There is a difference.
And how will you do that, and which spirit will you sow to? Your own spirit? The devil’s spirit? the spirit of anger? What spirit? What spirit will you sow to?[/QUOTE] You don't have to pick on me for a miss spelled word . I mint which not witch. I am sorry DHK but you are very mean and I will not talk to you again. God is love and they that are born of God are born of love. I do not see no love from you but anger. I will not post to you again and please don't post to me because I will not answer it. I will prey for you and for me, because we will always need him.

 

The truth of the metaphor doesn't deny the fact that the Bible uses literary devices.

As I challenged you before, put on a demonstration for us. Divide your body from your soul and spirit, so that we can see each part individually. Can your body do anything without your soul or spirit? Can they really be separated? When you sin with your flesh do you not also sin with your spirit? David said he did. He committed adultery and murder (sins of the flesh), and prayed "take not thy spirit from me." Why would he be concerned about the spirit if it was a sin against the flesh? He also said "Against thee and thee alone have I sinned." David sinned grievously--inwardly and outwardly, and yet was a man after God's own heart. He is in heaven today.

Yes I believe in the trinity.
However the Bible teaches that it is the Holy Spirit, not the Father (for example) that indwells each believer. What do you think happened at Pentecost? What do you think Jesus promised his disciples before he ascended into heaven?

That is an interesting thought. I will never die. Not just a part of me. But I, as a person, will never die. "He that believeth in me shall never die; believeth thou this?" I believe it, don't you? Not a part of me; but all of me. And until the resurrection, or as long as I live, I will sin because I have a sin nature. Jesus is the only one that was sinless. Whether the sin is outward or inward it is sin. Whether it is with my fingers or my heart it is sin. My heart controls what my fingers do, so there is no difference in sins.

 

I am sorry if my attempt at humor offended you Charles.
However my answers to your posts were not mean, but rather straightforward, truthful, and from the Scripture. Sometimes the truth hurts. It is difficult to explain Scriptural truths to those who are not born again, as you yourself admit. That is the only explanation that I can offer you at this present time. Put your trust in the fnished work of Christ, and he will give you the light that you so desperately seek after.

 

The truth never herts me It was the :laugh: about my miss spelling.But that was then and I forgive you for it . I was not mad at you I was just hert .I know that I am a falure. I did not know how to read till I read a 1611 edition KJV Bible. But I guess I did not read it right. I will not fight with you no more on this. I will hold to what God has given me. And press on to the mark of the high calling.

 

Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
--It appears that David had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as well. If he didn't he wouldn't have prayed to the Lord not to take it away.

David was a "man after God's own heart," the only one in Scripture to be called such. He also was inspired of God to write Scripture. He had to have the "mind of God (Christ) in order to do so.

But what does the Scripture actually say on this subject?

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
--It is not that we already have the mind of Christ, but it is something we must strive for as we grow in grace and knowledge. Paul does not assert that we have the mind of Christ, but rather that we are to choose to have the mind of Christ. It is a command, an imperative in the Greek. That means we don't always have the mind of Christ. For example you don't have the mind of Christ when you are angry, do you?
In that sense David may have had the mind of Christ more than we.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
--God does not give you a "new mind" when you are born again. He renews the one that you already have. And that is only in a spiritual sense. From a medical standpoint he is not going to take a person with an IQ of 80 and put it up to 160. It is the mind that controls the flesh. The two cannot be separated. The mind (brain) tells the body what to do. The body is at the command of the brain. Thus there is no such thing as an outward sin that can be divorced from an inward sin, since the mind commands the body.
That mind may give in to the mind of Christ, or it may not. It may be filled with the Spirit, or it may not (and I am speaking of believers). You are not always filled with the Spirit. If you were Paul wouldn't have to give the command to be continually filled with the Spirit. But he gives the command because we are not always filled with the Spirit. If it was an automatic thing for all believers there would be no need of such a command.
Thus when you are angry or depressed, or discouraged, or deceptive, or fail in your prayer life, etc. then you sin, and are not filled with the Spirit, and do not have the mind of Christ. Your mind controls your thoughts and your body. There is no difference. A wicked thought is just as bad as a wicked action like adultery, and you will give account for both. One sin is just as bad as the other in God's sight.

The two don't exist separate one from another, and therein lies your problem. We are not two separate identities, but one person.

Paul described such a struggle in Romans chapter 7. It is a struggle between the old nature and the new nature which we have in Christ. They both exist side by side. But what did Paul say:

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
--There were times when Paul gave into the flesh and sinned. Did he ever accuse Christ of sinning like you do? Of course not. He blames the sin on himself. Christ (through the power of His Spirit) dwells within him. But Christ does not sin if he sin. That is just a ridiculous theology to believe, and it is blasphemous to accuse Christ of sin, when you fail and sin.

Technically the indwelling of the Spirit came at Pentecost, but if David didn't have it, then what is Psalm 51 indicating? It seems as if David did have the Holy Spirit upon his life most of the time, and probably acted like it more than the average Christian who has the indwelling of the Spirit today.

You are bordering on a serious heresy: dualism.
You consider flesh as sin, and spirit as life and good.
If that is true it leads to a denial of the incarnation and the humanity of Christ.
Is this your belief?

 

whosoever doeth not RIGHTEOUNESS is not of GOD, NEITHER he that loveth not his brother. I am not saying that you do these things but if you do . I do not beleive you know God. I have given you scripture look it up and read it. You said something about being Gods child that he will not kill them because they done something wrong. That is if you are a child of God.

Charles, my name too by the way, I had hoped that we wouldn't come to this. I am not a sinner because I sin, I sin because I am a sinner, and you are too. But I know that He that hath begun a good work in me will complete it. I know in whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day.
You have questioned by standing in the Lord Jesus because of what is clearly the truth, so we are done here (as far as this discussion) the Lord bless you, Charles

 

Dualism has different meanings. One is that good and evil are equal and opposite powers fighting for supremacy. Another is that man is comprised of two separate entities, matter and spirit. I thought it was the former that was considered heresy. I'm not supporting the latter, but I never heard of it as being heresy (unless you equate it with Christian Science, I guess).

 

My brother what is it that you committed to him. Do you not believe that someone that is born of God cannot sin. Have you tried to stop sinning? Jesus said he that loveth me will keep my comandment. I am not saying that we will not sin. I do say he that is born of God cannot sin. Are you born of God and if you are do you sin? God said that you cannot sin being Born again but you say you can but I am to believe you over what God said. I am not born again I do sin. There are alot out there saying I am born again and sin. But are they telling the truth about being born again and still sinning. When in 1 john it tell me that they cannot sin. I will show you my faith in God I believe when he does save me I will not sin being Born again. He can make the blind to see . For with man it is inposible but with God all things are posible. I have already stoped sinning before God.I know that I can do it with his help. I am repenting of the sins I have done. I believe God can save me from the things that I have done so wrong in this life and save me from my sins not in my sins.