RE: Phillips Craig & Dean...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ATeenageChristian, Jan 12, 2002.

  1. ATeenageChristian

    ATeenageChristian
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    What songs do these artist(s) play? :confused:
     
  2. SaggyWoman

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    Correct me if I am wrong, because I may get some of their music mixed up with 4Him.

    Mercy Came Running.
    Crucified with Christ.
    Turn your radio on.
    Concert of the Age
    A friend called Grace
    He beleives in Lost causes.
    I want to be just like you
    Can I get a witness
    Build a bridge of Love


    There are others that are out on other CD's but I can't find them right now. They are kind of a taste of Southern Gospel, but more upbeat.
     
  3. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    Philips, Craig and Dean are Oneness Pentecostals which is a dangerous heresy that denies the Trinity and espouses work salvation. I am amazed the CCM industry has promoted a group that belongs to non Christian religion.
     
  4. SaggyWoman

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    And, I have also heard that before. The CCM industry also supports Vineyard music.
     
  5. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    I think there is a major differance. Vineyard as well as most Charismatics do believe in the Trinity which keeps them in the realm of Orthodoxy despite many doctrinal errors.

    Philip's, Craig and Dean's churches who are Oneness Pentecostals are not even regarded by the Assemblies of God as valid churches. Oneness Pentecostal theology because of it's denial of the Trinity, invalidates anything else they believe since a denial of the Trinity is a rejection of the God of the Bible. A denial of the Trinity is a central mark of a cult group ( such as Jehovah Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostalism, Mormonism, Unification Church etc..).

    A person can be a Charismatic and be a Christian because they still hold to the central beliefs of Christianity, but one who is a Oneness Pentecostal cannot be regarded as a brother or sister because they deny the Trinity by which all Bible doctrines are built upon or connected in some way.
     
  6. SaggyWoman

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    Which, at this point, I would have to say, what do the words of their songs say? Are the words valid? Do they match with what the Bible teaches?

    Or do you drop a song because of who sings it, whether or not it is Biblically sound?

    Elvis sang alot of gospel music, but I don't know that I believe he lived for the Lord. But do we throw out the songs he sang?
     
  7. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    If you are going to say these things about these artists, please provide proof. Thank you.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  8. Eric B

    Eric B
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Philips, Craig and Dean are Oneness Pentecostals which is a dangerous heresy that denies the Trinity and espouses work salvation. I am amazed the CCM industry has promoted a group that belongs to non Christian religion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Is this true? I have heard this might be a rumor (circulated by anti-CCM witch hunters) that they professed belief in the Trinity. I do know that "Majesty" as either written by, or had some involvement of oneness people.
     
  9. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    Eric B and Adam,

    I actually got the info from a CCM disc jockey. I will email him for the links that I have lost and hopfully have them in the next couple of days. This by the way is not a rumor but is well known. Hopefully I will have a few links in a few days.

    Saggy Woman,

    You make some valid points. The problem is these fellows go under the cloak of Christian artists and are uplifted as such. They are no more Christians than a Ozzy Osbourne. That is my major problem. They are attached to a Christian label that at their concerts give them a forum to possibly bring Christians into their Oneness heresy.
     
  10. ATeenageChristian

    ATeenageChristian
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    PC&D I don't really like. Their song: "Mercy Came A Running" is a good song. The rest are not so good. :(
     
  11. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kiffin:
    Eric B and Adam,

    I actually got the info from a CCM disc jockey. I will email him for the links that I have lost and hopfully have them in the next couple of days. This by the way is not a rumor but is well known. Hopefully I will have a few links in a few days.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thank you, I am interested in learning the truth of the matter, whatever that might be.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  12. Mike McK

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    I like several of their songs, even though I'm not a big fan of that kind of music in general.

    As for them being oneness pentacostals, I don't know whether of not it's true but I've heard a couple of people, including Hank Hannegraaf, say so.

    If it's true, then I would certainly disagree with them on that but as long as it doesn't creep into their music I wouldn't have a problem listening to their music.

    Mike

    http://www.keylife.org
     
  13. Eric B

    Eric B
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The problem is these fellows go under the cloak of Christian artists and are uplifted as such. They are no more Christians than a Ozzy Osbourne. That is my major problem. They are attached to a Christian label that at their concerts give them a forum to possibly bring Christians into their Oneness heresy.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Even though oneness doctrine (modalism) is wrong, I still not see it as on the same level as total secular unbelief or satanism (Ozzy Osbourne) or even like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. Oneness does not deny the deity of Christ like the rest but instead tries to make Him the one person of the Godhead. A lot of average people, finding the Trinity hard to understand fall into this, because it seems right, and others (such as the CCM industry and new-evangelicalism in general) tolerate it realizing the doctrine is impossible to completely understand. And the historic creedal terms used to describe it have thrown alot of people off. This is not to justify it, but I think we should keep this in mind when judging these people. Now most oneness groups believe in works salvation, and this is where the biggest problem would be. But my wife and friends listen to some of their stuff, and they thought they were orthodox Christians, so they must be keeping their beliefs out of the music, as Smoke mentioned.
     
  14. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric B:


    Even though oneness doctrine (modalism) is wrong, I still not see it as on the same level as total secular unbelief or satanism (Ozzy Osbourne) or even like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. Oneness does not deny the deity of Christ like the rest but instead tries to make Him the one person of the Godhead. A lot of average people, finding the Trinity hard to understand fall into this, because it seems right, and others (such as the CCM industry and new-evangelicalism in general) tolerate it realizing the doctrine is impossible to completely understand. And the historic creedal terms used to describe it have thrown alot of people off. This is not to justify it, but I think we should keep this in mind when judging these people. Now most oneness groups believe in works salvation, and this is where the biggest problem would be. But my wife and friends listen to some of their stuff, and they thought they were orthodox Christians, so they must be keeping their beliefs out of the music, as Smoke mentioned.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Just wanted to clarify, the whole thing about Ozzy being a satanist is an urban legend put out by people like av1611.

    Ozzy's wife has said several times that teh couple has "no religious beliefs, Satanic or otherwise" and that Ozzy's "madman" persona is all for show.

    Mike

    http://www.keylife.org
     
  15. Brother Adam

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    I'm still waiting for some qualifying proof showing that they are not Christians or "oneness pentacostals" or whatever. So far this looks like a lot of gossip. Which we all know is wrong.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  16. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    Well, Unfortunately it is true.

    Randy Phillips now serves as Associate Pastor with his father, Kenneth Phillips, Senior Pastor at the World of Pentecost Church in Austin, Texas.
    http://www.wop.com/promiseland/pastors.htm

    Shawn Craig is a music minister at South County Christian Center in St. Louis
    http://www.scccenter.com/pastoral_staff.html

    There is not much info on what his church believes though you can email the church.

    Dan Dean is a minister at Christ Temple in Irving Texas

    check the last link which clearly identifies them with the Oneness movement plus the Church doctrinal statement has no referance to the Trinity
    http://www.christ-temple.org/about.html
    http://www.christ-temple.org/aboutstaf.html
    http://www.christ-temple.org/mission.html
     
  17. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Thank you.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  18. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    Eric B. said,

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Even though oneness doctrine (modalism) is wrong, I still not see it as on the same level as total secular unbelief or satanism (Ozzy Osbourne) or even like the Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The Oneness doctrine is not just wrong it is heresy. If you ever study in detail what Oneness believe regarding the Deity of Christ you will see that it has little in common with Trinitarian Evangelicals belief in the Deity of Christ.

    The Jesus of the Oneness is another "Jesus" and not just ignorance regarding the Trinity, Deity of Christ. For one thing they do not believe Jesus existed until Bethlehem. Christ is God only because the Spirit of God indwells His human body in its fullness. They say that Jesus is God, but really only mean that the Father who dwelt in the Son is God. The only basis for Oneness theology to claim that Jesus is God is that the man Jesus who walked this earth had God the Father inside of his human body. When the Onenesss say that the Son is the eternal God, all they really mean is that the Father who indwells the Son is eternal.

    In Oneness theology the Son is relegated to a mere role played by God, for according to their view the Father, Son, and Spirit are three roles played by a uni-personal God.

    It is not simply ignorance but a teaching of a differant Jesus just as Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses teach of another "Jesus" also.

    Below is a little more info on Philips Craig and Dean. I am still waiting for my DJ friend to send more info,

    http://www.theocentric.com/wwwboard/messages/42.htm
    http://www.tektonics.org/demarrvw02.html
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    A belief that sounds christian - oneness heresy, for instance - is often more culpable than outright ungodliness.

    Example: I attended both a Baptist College and a University. At the University I knew the wrong teaching at every corner, I was prepared to measure it all carefully and counter it with the Word of God.

    At a good Baptist college I had a professor that was Arminian. His smooth, deceptive teaching from a place of unquestioning authority led me to accept some very wrong doctrinal teaching.

    Noticed that my rat poison is 99.5% wheat and only .5% arsenic. Not about to eat any of it, even though it looks just like regular wheat.
     
  20. Kiffin

    Kiffin
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    The DJ sent me this link http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm

    One portion of the article states,
    Numerous individuals who are accepted within mainstream Evangelicalism are affiliated with Oneness Pentecostalism. The Christian musical trio Phillips, Craig, and Dean are all ministers in the UPCI. T.D. Jakes has roots in the Oneness Pentecostal movement,9 and his doctrinal statement currently proclaims his belief in three "dimensions" or "manifestations" of the one God;10 not surprisingly, doctrine is one of the two areas with which people typically express disagreement with Jakes.11 Also, the popular worship choruses "Holy Ground" and "In the Presence of Jehovah" were written by UPC songwriter Geron Davis.12

    The info on Philips,Craig and Dean is received from this article - J. Lee Grady, "The Other Pentecostals," Charisma Magazine, June (1997), p. 68. "

    The DJ's name is Josh and he Dj's at this Online CCM station http://www.mycpr.com/
     

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