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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by hrhema, Jan 2, 2003.

  1. hrhema

    hrhema
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    Just want to get reactions to the following:

    1. If you attended a church where the Ministry
    has no problem with out right lying to their
    members what would you do?
    2. If you approached a deacon about getting help
    for a family in the church who is having
    financial problems (in a church of 800 members)
    and you were told the church does not help
    charity cases. How would you react?
    3. If the pastors wife turns her nose up to most
    members except the wealthy how would you react.

    Thanks for your responses.
     
  2. Thankful

    Thankful
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    I would probably wonder if God wanted me in that kind of church.

    I would pray, pray, pray that the church and the members would humble themselves and glorify God with their actions.
     
  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    Frankly, I would pitch a tent where two or three could gather in the Lord's name, and worship Him.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
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    Document it (tape recordings of worship, written notes, recordings of called business meetings) and then privately confront the individual(s). If that does not work, gather together a small group of the congregation and confront the individual(s). If that doesn’t work, take it before the church publicly with your documentation. If that doesn’t work – leave.

    If the church doesn’t mind getting lied to, then it sounds like it is heading for cult status.

    Above all though, be sure to examine your motives and ask others you trust if you are being unreasonable/unwise about the situation.

    Take it to the vocational ministers and get their guidance/assistance.

    First I would pray for her and her family and examine my motives/perceptions. Then I would try to take some time to meet with her and her husband (take them to dinner, invite them to your home). After I have a relationship with them, speak to both of them openly and honestly about the impression you have received.

    (I know of several situations where the pastor and his family have taken a beating from members of the congregation and the wife is feeling very protective/intimidated/hostile to the congregation – it may not really have anything to do with wealth.)
     
  5. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC
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    When I saw the number of members I quickly looked down to see if you hailed from my hometown and you might be talking about the church I left about 5 months ago. [​IMG]
     
  6. hrhema

    hrhema
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    For #1. I had asked the Senior Pastor of the church to contact my Step Son. His Dad had been a member of this church and supposed to have a close relationship with the senior pastor. His son is away from God. He told me three different times he would do this but never has. My wife had a hysterectomy and the Senior Pastor promised me that he would be there for the surgery and then did not show up. When I questioned another member of the ministry that did show up he said he did not know the senior pastor has promised to show up but he had talked to him that morning and he was going on a shopping outing with his wife.
    After my wife recovered and could go back to church the Associate Pastor came up to her and said "So glad you are back. You know I tried to call you but never could reach you. I tried 4 times." Our home phone has call notes and caller ID and he did not call the home phone number. The church had her cell phone number which also has voice mail and caller id but nothing on this and when she said nothing had shown up he then changed the story to he called her job four times but there is a receptionist who takes messages.

    A family had started visiting the church and the husband lost his job. My wife was trying to get some groceries and some clothing for the family. The rules of the church is you go through your assigned deacon. This is what she did and this was what she was told.

    The pastors wife wears a new suit of clothes every Sunday morning. We have watched when there has been some kind of reception and she only speaks to certain people and when other people try to talk to her she walks off. He oldest daughter who is about 8 now had told other children in her Sunday School Class that they are beneath her. When the teacher asked her who tld her this she said my mommy.
     
  7. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
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    Jim1999 wrote:

    Agree with Jim again. It would seem to me, if I were in that position that it was time to move on. I don;t know how much you have invested here, and realize that it isn't as easy as that. But still, I think you need to consider that option. Particularly troublesome is the attitude of the pastor's spouse. It has to be showing up in ways in which you may be unaware.

    Good luck

    Jeff.
     
  8. 2Timothy4:1-5

    2Timothy4:1-5
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    I would begin a serious search for a new church home.

    Kenneth
     
  9. Pastork

    Pastork
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    Frankly, if someone approached me for advice with the three criticisms you have listed, my first reaction would be to wonder if that person had his facts straight. In my experience, most such criticisms are due to people having jumped too quickly to negative conclusions, having misunderstood something, or having listened to gossip. Thus, I would require specific proof before I accepted the criticisms as valid.
     
  10. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob
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    If you can't get the situation resolved, walk away quietly, don't tell a soul other than the Pastor why you are leaving. It seems to me that much talk has occured behind the pastor's back and the pastor's wife's back. The conflict is with him and her alone. Go to them and try. If it doesn't work, leave without taking anybody with you.
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I would find a new church! How can you believe a liar? If they lie to you in one area, they have lost their credibility in all areas...
     
  12. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Although the pastor's wife was not normally
    similar, I, too, checked your city/state to see if it
    could have been my old church. Although there
    was definitely pride in the pastors' wives ranks,
    it certainly was not that bad.

    With regard to lying, I think some of us are more
    sensitive than others. To me, if someone says
    something, I think it should be completely true, or
    it should be left unsaid; not everyone feels the
    same. Some believe that a certain aura or proto-
    col must be maintained at all costs.

    I will give a example that happened in my old
    church organization, when a certain pastor's wife
    left him because of the church and his strong
    over-riding marriage to it. Divorce was unaccept-
    able in that large church, as was any criticism of
    either the church or its leaders. So they minced
    their words so carefully, in the pulpit-explanation,
    that the people thought he had placed his wife in
    a mental institution after a mental break-down.
    This was told all around, often repeated, and left
    uncorrected. Many still believe this, although
    she had simply left him and moved into her own
    apartment.

    But this is the way things were often treated, and
    they never saw themselves as lying. It was like
    if I bought an outfit for $299.99 and my husband
    asked what I paid for it, and I responded, "Around
    two-hundred dollars." In their manner of thinking,
    it really was "around two-hundred dollars," and
    if my husband adds to it his own thoughts that I
    did not pay more than $200, trhat is not my fault.

    I don't think they intend to lie, but they do. I think
    they would be horrified if shown they they lied,
    because they just don't see it--especially in
    Arminian-holiness circles, as the church above
    was.

    [ January 03, 2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  13. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch
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    hrhema,
    This situation sounds alot like one that had happened to me. I was pregnant, abou 6 months. I had developed high blood pressure and was told by my doctor to stay in bed. I had passed on the word to the Pastors daughter (she was 25 years old) because she asked.

    When I was admitted to the hospital at the end of my 7th month, the people of the church came to me asking why I never told them how sick I was. I was quite upset, now knowing that my prayer request was never relayed to the church. And I had a very difficult time getting over the fact of what did people think I was doing if I wasn't at church.

    You need to go to him, and tell him those problems he has created. His answer should determine what you should do. Church discipline is not the answer, though. I always had a problem with raising your hand against the Lord's annoited. If he doesn't give a good excuse, leave.
     
  14. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
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    I would check to see if the ministers had your correct phone number.

    Then I would look elsewhere for a church.
     
  15. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
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    While I agree whole heartedly with what Baptist Believer said should be done... I think that I've actually read something similar to that in the Bible. I, personally, would just leave to find a better church.
     
  16. Thankful

    Thankful
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    The Holy Spirit will lead you to the church where you can serve!

    I would just leave and find another church. I have done this before. No one from my previous church ever contacted me or even missed me because it was a very large church. It was not entirely the church's fault, but I did not find a place where I could serve in that church.

    There are many, many churches in your area. Why stay in one where you are unhappy because the church does not meet your needs and the needs of other members. Find one where you can be of service to our Lord God and glorify His name.

    Another point: I have yet to belong to the perfect church because the church is made up of imperfect people, but I have found one that the fellowship is loving and caring. The members love the Lord and each other.
     
  17. Aaron

    Aaron
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    I think there's two sides to every story. Hate to see threads dissing a church.

    We all have a bad experience in church every now and then.

    That's life.
     
  18. Pete

    Pete
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    Doesn't sound like a Church, I'ld walk and find one.

    Pete
     
  19. Don

    Don
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    There's a couple of things that have been said in this thread that I personally disagree with.

    1) Don't just leave. You have a responsibility, if you have a problem with a fellow Christian, to try to correct the error (Matthew 18). If you try to talk to the pastor, and receive an unsatisfactory explanation, then you need to talk to a deacon. If the deacon agrees with you, then you both should talk to the pastor. If the pastor gives an explanation that the deacon is satisfied with, but you aren't, THEN you should consider leaving. Make sure you send a letter to the pastor and ALL the deacons or leaders of the church explaining why you're leaving--but don't write the letter in such a manner that you're derogatory towards the pastor. Remember, the deacon agreed with the pastor; you're the one with the problem.

    If the deacon isn't satisified by the pastor's answer, then it's incumbent upon him to get the other deacons involved.

    2) Don't pitch a tent and start your own church. I live in an area where that's the first resolution to any perceived problem with a church. Someone gets their feelings hurt, and the next thing you know, they've gone off and started a new church. That is not the answer. If you're being called to be a pastor--not just a preacher, but a pastor--then you should consider this option. But if not, don't grab two or three other disgruntled people and set up shop somewhere else. There are usually other churches in the area that you should check out first.
     
  20. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    I was booted. Not a lot of choice left in that. My
    husband left about nine months later. He waited,
    trying to work things out, until he left in anger. he
    wishes he had left earlier.

    My daughter and son-in-law waited, trying to
    work things out, and because they did not want to
    leave in anger, they set up boundaries, guide lines,
    safety checks, etc. But by the time their old pastor
    got through with them, they still left in anger.

    Sometimes, bad feelings are unavoidable, but what
    can be helped is how much those bad feelings are
    allowed to dominate one's mind. Sure, I am angry
    at the way I was treated, but I began to realize that
    they did me a favor. If I had not been booted, per-
    haps I would be still going there, in spite of the
    stomach cramps that sickened and debilitated me
    for hours every day that I had to anticipate going.
     

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