Read Luke 24:21 in its WHOLE context!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Oct 8, 2014.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Read Luke 24:21 in its WHOLE context!

    Let me tell you again; it seems no one comprehends!

    NEVER IS LUKE 24:21 READ IN WHOLE CONTEXT!

    The concrete SCRIPTURAL TRUTH I want you to see obviates itself from the following extracts from Luke 24.

    “On the First Day of the week …
    … the day far spent toward evening …
    … two of them told Jesus …
    … besides today (having been) the third day since they had delivered Him to be crucified …
    … certain women who deep(est) morning were at the tomb, astonished us and told us they had seen angels who told them that He was alive.”
    "Today the third day since they crucified Him" …
    Which day was it?
    “The First Day of the week” was the day AFTER …
    … "the third day Christ rose from the dead".
    … "today the third day since they crucified Him certain women who deep(est) morning were at the tomb, astonished us and told us they had seen angels who told them that he was alive …
    … two of them (us) told Jesus …
    … on the First Day of the week …
    … the day far spent toward evening."
    Jesus had already resurrected; Jesus had not yet appeared.
    Therefore
    ...“RISEN, He early on the First Day APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first.”
    Luke 24 and Mark 16:9
    Check their truth against John 19:1 and 11-17.
    My aim was to let the Scripture tell the truth, only the truth and the whole truth ITSELF.
    Without any explanation Luke 24 unequivocally and unambiguously declares:
    "On the First Day of the week -- the third day since they crucified Him, day far spent toward evening -- two of them told Jesus, Today certain women who deep(est) morning were at the tomb, astonished us and told us they had seen angels who told them that he was alive … "
    He “was RISEN”!
    He did not then, rise!
    He then “WAS, risen”!
    He THEN: “deepest morning”, “WAS, RISEN”, the women after, THEN were told!
    But only when a "gardener" would come to his "garden" -- "early on the First Day of the week --, APPEARED He first to Mary Magdalene AS THE RISEN ONE"---as "THIS Jesus whom God had raised from the dead CHRIST AND LORD" --- "ON THE SABBATH BEFORE"—“on the Sabbath before the First Day of the week” Matthew 28:1-4.

    ... or does no one care?!

    God help us

     
    #1 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Oct 8, 2014
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  2. PreachTony

    PreachTony
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    What exactly are you going for here, Gerhard? I'm having a bit of a hard time putting it together. It's like the basis of a discussion is in place, but there are a lot of incomplete sentences, so I can't quite put together what we're trying to discuss.
     
  3. Hark

    Hark
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    There are no contradictions. Brace yourself for that.

    If you are implying that because He was crucified the day before the sabbath and then yet seemingly implied as raised AS you are SEEMINGLY INFERRING before that first day of the week as if on that sabbath day prior, and thus concluding that cemented scriptural truth of Him being raised on the third day is a lie, there are some information you need to know.

    There are special sabbaths besides the seventh day sabbath.

    Colossians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    The Jewish day begins with evening at sunset until it ends at evening at sunset for the beginning of the next day.

    If you check with the creation account, you can read that each day begins with evening and then morning for each day.

    There was a special sabbath that Jesus had to be buried before the evening of that day ended that would begin that special sabbath day which was not the seventh day of rest sabbath day.

    Our calender is not like the Jewish calender and so keep that in mind when reading about these special sabbaths.

    Leviticus 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. 26 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. 28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God. 29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. 30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. 31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath. 33 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord. 35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein. 37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: 38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord. 39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

    When the Lord designates a date, it is regardless of where the day it falls on in the Jewish calender. If it follows the original seventh sabbath day, then the Jewish people have to do it.

    As it would be different each year on when the designated special sabbath day would fall on during the week, it stands to reason that Jesus was crucified before that special sabbath day wherein the report of Him having been risen on the first day of the week ( Sunday ) is also to take into the account that the first day of the week started from sunset last night after the official seventh sabbath day of the week had ended at sunset.

    So Him having been risen on that first day of the week is true as that day began at sunset pior following the end of the weekly sabbath day wherein the ladies got the report of Him having been risen earlier from that morning but it would still be on that first day of the week since that first day of the week began earlier at sunset prior.
     
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Have I said there are contradictions? You said there are no contradictions.

    If I remember correctly, I wrote about Luke 24 and Matthew 28 --- not about Colossians 2.

    Nevertheless, show me the ~special sabbaths besides the seventh day sabbath~ in Colossians.

    Show in Colossians 2
    ~holy~
    ~day~
    ~an holyday~
    ~the new moon~
    ~the sabbath~
    ~the sabbath days~
    ~the tenth day~
    ~day of atonement~


    Show in Colossians 2
    ~meat~
    ~drink~
    ~offering~

    Show in Colossians
    ~Jewish day~
    ~fifteenth day~
    ~seven days~
    ~on the first day~
    ~on the eighth day~
    ~the Jewish calender~
    ~Moses, saying~
    ~feast of tabernacles~

    Show in Colossians
    ~the children of Israel~
    ~the seventh month~
    ~a sabbath~
    ~your sabbath~
    ~blowing of trumpets~
    ~offering made by fire~

    Show in Colossians 2
    ~ye shall~
    ~ye shall do~
    ~ye shall do no~
    ~ye shall do no manner of work~
    ~ye shall offer~
    ~afflict your souls~

    Show in Colossians 2
    ~I destroy~
    ~he shall be cut off~

    Show in Colossians
    ~ye shall proclaim~
    ~When the Lord designates a date~
    ~a date~
    ~regardless of where the day it falls (is) on in the Jewish calender~
    ~different each year~
    ~during the week~

    Show in Colossians
    ~Him having been risen on that first day of the week~

    Show in Colossians or in ANY Scripture
    ~the report of Him having been RAISED [~risen~ Sic.] on the first day of the week~


     
    #4 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2014
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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  6. Hark

    Hark
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    Well, you seem to be expressing turmoil and so I could only guess as to what you were presenting.

    I was not the only one having a hard time discerning your "turmoil". Even PreachTony had asked for clarification from you.

    Please state the nature of your OP.

    Are you doubting the flow of events when comparing the gospel accounts? Is that it?

    Note sabbath days as plural?

    Epistle to the Colossians was to not regard those special sabbath days which would include the regular weekly sabbath. There would be no need to go into detail what they were when dismissing them, but if you want to know what those special sabbath days were, check out Leviticus 23:24-39

    Sorry I was not much help for you, but then again, only God can cause the increase and so hopefully, He will help you see the truth in His words soon.
     
  7. Hark

    Hark
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    If this is your issue:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2011/06/examining-a-bible-contradiction-who-discovered-the-empty-tomb/

    The answer is:

     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    There is NO ~~biblical inaccuracy~~.

    It either is an inaccuracy through TRANSLATION or through READING or through UNDERSTANDING.

    For example:

    ~~the Bible say that Mary Magdalene and another Mary discovered the empty tomb~~

    WHERE does the BIBLE say that?

    Place the Scripture, HERE!


     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    You have it the wrong way round.

    It is not ~~those special sabbath days which would include the regular weekly sabbath~~;
    It is the regular weekly Sabbath Day which included all those bygone special sabbaths.

    And before God might help me, ~~see the truth in His words~~ please do you, help me see in Colossians 2,

    1)~~the Colossians was TO NOT REGARD~~ and
    2)~~those special sabbath~~ they allegedly were not to regard.

    Also, it is not I, but YOU, who ~~are doubting the flow of events when comparing the gospel accounts~~ because there simply is, NO, ~doubt~ in the flow of events when comparing the Gospel accounts. None whatsoever. It’s you again who employ a question mark – not me.
     
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    About this referred to 'Lee's', claimed quote from John 20,

    Q~“They have taken the Lord out of the tomb but we don’t know where they have put him!”~Q

    ... it is the most flagrant MISQUOTE AND UNASHAMED OUTRIGHT LIE I have ever seen for what John really wrote.

    DESPICABLE LIE!
     
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Imagine all "the women" mentioned in Luke 24:10 [Variant: "and the three women", Mary Magdalene, the other Mary and Salome], "arriving at the tomb with their “spices READY AND PREPARED" : to anoint the body which Mary Magdalene had told them was ~~taken out of the tomb~~!

    Ridiculous nonsensical LYING!

    What discovery was it of these women to “NOT FIND THE BODY” when they already knew it was not in the tomb anymore!


     
    #11 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Oct 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2014
  12. Hark

    Hark
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    You are straining at the gnat. It means the same thing.

    This being after Jesus's death & resurrection and addressed to believers in Jesus Christ at Colossus, the non-believing Jews before His death would be heeding the special sabbaths as well as the regular weekly one.
     
  13. PreachTony

    PreachTony
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    I'm still incredibly confused...
     
  14. Hark

    Hark
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    Matthew 28:1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. 8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.

    Let's take the study of witnesses at a car accident at an intersection. The police will have multiple witnesses, some seeing more than others. Out of those witnesses, you may find similar witnesses but given in a viewpoint that was relevant to them in sharing. Those similar reports that leave out something or someone is not indicative of these witnesses as lying but how they presented their report. If the officer had asked those witnesses if so and so was there, then they would have recollected and said so, but the absence in that witness does not make the witness a lie.

    If all gospels shared the same thing word for word, accusations would be made that it was copied. It could even be accused of what need there be for four gospels if it is all the same by those four witnesses?

    The varying accounts of those four gospels gives more credence to the event than any other way. By combining all the elements of the four gospels, one can piece together a fuller story.

    Just like Matthew 7:23-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is the same warning Jesus is giving about a future time when God will come to judge His House at the pre tribulational rapture event. Both are written differently and yet the same truth and the same warning is there.
     
  15. Hark

    Hark
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    I think I understand his angst by His grace and by His help, but then again, I may be assuming as he was not clear in his OP.

    Hopefully, in time the Lord will help us all to be on the same page in addressing his concern.
     
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    It seems you have a genuine concern about what my ~conern~ in my OP was.

    There are many ways I could explain it. I'll attempt to be so concise as possible.

    The usual 'explanation' attempted for Luke 24 in verse 21 is by OMITTING the cardinal word --- which omission turns the WHOLE CONTEXT of the chapter and meaning of the VERSE, heals over head.

    I promise, what I have just said, will soon be illustrated if this conversation is to proceed any further.

    So I'll in the mean time answer the post before yours, first.


     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Hark:

    Q~Let's take the study of witnesses at a car accident at an intersection. The police will have multiple witnesses, some seeing more than others. Out of those witnesses, you may find similar witnesses but given in a viewpoint that was relevant to them in sharing. Those similar reports that leave out something or someone is not indicative of these witnesses as lying but how they presented their report. If the officer had asked those witnesses if so and so was there, then they would have recollected and said so, but the absence in that witness does not make the witness a lie.~Q

    GE:

    We don’t have the witness ~of witnesses at a car accident~ here in Matthew 28:1. We have the “explanation of the angel” in verse 5 “to the women” other than Mary Magdalene shortly after Jesus “had appeared to Mary Magdalene first early on the First Day of the week”. Mark 16:9 John 20:11-17.

    The Gospels do not ~present … those similar reports that leave out something or someone [that] is not indicative of these witnesses~. Each Gospel records the author’s preferred individual ~report~ he wanted to make use of to ~share~ that which was ~relevant~ to what he ~would have indicated~ and ~recollected~.

    Hark:

    Q~If all gospels shared the same thing word for word, accusations would be made that it was copied.~Q

    GE:

    ~If all Gospels shared the same thing word for word~ they would not have ~shared the same thing~. They would have ~copied the same thing~ and would serve no purpose. They would give no ~credence~ to the ~fuller story~. Indeed, ~what need would there be for four gospels if it is all the same by those four witnesses?~

    So the Gospels are not ~varying~ or differing ~accounts~; they are, different accounts. They are different accounts containing various but never varying ~elements~.

    The full picture of the Gospel Story only emerges from a proper look at each Gospel on its own, and only then from a proper look at them all, ~combining all the elements together~.
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Gerhard Ebersoehn View Post

    You have it the wrong way round.
    It is not ~~those special sabbath days which would include the regular weekly sabbath~~;
    It is the regular weekly Sabbath Day which included all those bygone special sabbaths.

     
    #18 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Oct 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2014

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