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Real Baptism - part II

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    In situations like this, taking him in as a member without baptism is "sticky". I am not saying that he wasn't saved, but one can be saved without having their name on any church book. I wouldn't have had a problem with setting him in a chair, in the shower, and the turning the showerhead on. Considering he was on his deathbed, this would be suitable for me. The main thing is this; he was saved before he died, and I rejoice in just knowing that!:thumbs::jesus:

    i am I am's!!

    Willis
     
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Hmm, interesting. How about the rest of you? Would the shower do the trick? Every part of his body was under water. He was wet all over. Would the shower fit the description of immerse, dip or plunge?
     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Yes, baptism is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is also an outward symbol of inside cleansing.

    The symbol is an indication of a reality. One cannot change the symbol and say it represents the same reality.

    Immersion is the best symbol of the gospel.
    Sprinkling is not, pouring is not. They leave something to be desired as representations of the death, burial and resurrection.

    For the sacramentalists among us, who hold that baptism has salvific efficacy, are you sure that you want to risk someone's soul for the sake of convenience? In other words, if baptism saves, and all agree that baptizo is immersion, do you really want to take a chance that the short-cut may not be doing the job?

    The Church of Christ folks aren't taking any chances.
     
  4. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    Sacramentalists don't necessarily believe that baptism is a salvific act. In fact, most of us don't. Sacraments are means of grace.

    Those who believe that probably wouldn't want to take any chances. So fill up the tub and get the guy as far under as possible.

    But the rest of us don't see the symbol as having that kind of power in itself. I don't think there is anything wrong with the affusion method because of that very reason.
     
  5. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    This is great news! Now we can take new believers out back and squirt them with the garden hose! Just kidding. We all know as long as they're dunked in water, running or not, it's acceptable.
     
  6. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    I know a preacher who lived in China for some years and a Chinese woman who had heard him preach ran to him and insisted to be baptized right there on the street. He had bottled water and poured the water over the top of her head.
     
  7. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    I'd like to offer a different interpretation, and that is that circumcision is not replaced with physical baptism (a sign being replaced merely by another sign) but with spiritual circumcision.

    "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.” ~ Col. 2:11-12"

    And, yes, I see that baptism is mentioned in verse 12, but it is spiritual baptism (also made without hands).

    To have circumcision be replaced by merely physical baptism is to overlook, IMO, the spiritual aspect of new life in Christ. The whole emphasis of our new life in Christ is on the invisible, freed from the visible and physical tokens of the preparatory Old Covenant.
     
  8. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Tom,

    This is a really good point. Since you brought this up, I'm curious whether you think the "Spiritual Baptism" aspect allows for us to accept something other than immersion as a valid baptism. Can you share your thoughts?

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  9. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    A couple of years ago I would have said No. But at this point I would definitely say that we should not let mode of baptism have more importance than it should. I do believe that baptism needs to be a conscious commitment on the one being baptized (no room for paedo-baptism), seeing that a good part of the baptism is statement of commitment (which, of course, a baby can't do).
     
  10. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Can you elaborate? I'm not trying to set you up as a drum to beat against, but I would like to understand why you think mode is not as important. Again, if you read my earlier posts in the thread, you'll see that I've been dealing with this in our church. So, I'm curious as to why you came to your conclusion and how you came to that conclusion.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    This sounds very much like a paper I wrote on Baptism at the age of 20 when I was baptized. My views have changed a bit over the years, and I think them more biblical now.
     
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