Really Knowing Who is Saved

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saturneptune, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    There have been several threads mostly having to do whether someone is a false prophet or apostate. There have also been a few threads about who is in hell from history. My question to anyone who would express an opinion is, "Do we really know who is saved for sure other than ourselves?"

    My belief right now is that only the person and God know for sure. Now granted, we can have a good idea by knowing someone over a period of time, by seeing the change Christ has worked in their life. We can also have an idea by observing others over a period of time that show no Christ-like qualities or any interest in spiritual things.

    If you are diving by a bar and a drunk staggers out, is that person lost? Is the friendly, smiling, well-dressed person at church all the time saved?

    There was a pastor in the area here who a few years ago took it upon himself to ask the community to pray for the salvation of various community leaders, all of which will remain unnamed here.

    To me, that pastor may have thought he knew that they were not saved, but I think there is no way for him to know.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. donnA

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    The only way we have of knowing who is saved, this side of heaven, is if they tell us they are or are not. Just because we see bad behavior does not mean they are not, a consistantly bad lifestyle, with no desire to live better, could mean not saved, but we don't know,and we aren't to judge if they are or are not, all thats up to God. Not us. All in all, it's not our call.
     
  3. Tom Butler

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    I suppose there's no way to be sure, but the Scriptures give us a little help.

    By their fruits you shall know them.

    You were created unto good works.

    Tom B
     
  4. bapmom

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    I don't think we can know for sure about any other person. But thats also why I think we need to be careful not to assume a person IS saved just because they "look right." Its better to discuss the issue with someone rather than assuming they know what you mean.
     
  5. Ron Arndt

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    One cannot know if a person is truly saved by looking upon another and how he or she acts. We are accountable to God for our own salvation alone. If we as individuals believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, repent and are born again according to God's word we ARE saved. We have passed from death to life.
     
  6. mountainrun

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    This passage has nothing to do with determining ones' salvation, though it has often been misused this way.

    The scripture refers to false prophets.
    To expand it beyond this application is entirely unjustified.

    "Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
    Mat 7:16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

    MR
     
  7. Rachel

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    I agree with you. Imagine that. ;) :D
     
  8. bapmom

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    Yes, imagine that!

    :D
     
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    mountainrun said
    You are right and I am wrong. Thanks for the correction.

    Tom
     
  10. saturneptune

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    I would like to hear some responses from the people in this board who have claimed to know of another's salvation. There have been opinions expressed about the salvation of Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Hal Lindsey and others. There was also a thread entitled "Those from History Who are in Hell."
     
  11. Martin

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    saturneptune:

    ==That is certainly a tricky question. No doubt about it. However I think we can know, in general, who is in heaven and who is not. The Bible gives us several "lists" concerning the lifestyles of the lost (ie...those who will perish). See Romans 1:18-32, 1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Eph 5:3-12, 1Jn 2:19, 3:9-10, Rev 21:8, etc, etc. We can also know that all who have passed and who had turned to Christ as Lord are in heaven. However the tricky part concerns people like those mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23. They look good on the outside but are spiritually dead on the inside (See Matt 23:25-28). So I guess in some cases we know, in some cases we don't know at all, and in other cases we can't really be sure. Does not really answer any questions, does it? The one thing you can be sure of is YOUR salvation (1Jn 5:13).

    ____________________________________________

    You said:
    ==Sadly the later is not always truly saved. For the former I would just say that drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21). Could a Christian backslide and get drunk? Yes but it would not be a way of life (1Jn 3:9-10). Christ makes a FOREVER change in the life of the person He saves. That person cannot be the same old sinner they were before salvation (1Cor 6:11). So the person who stumbles out of the bar is probably not a Christian. However we do need to keep in mind that some true Christians have fallen into all sorts of horrible sin(s). They are still saved however they could be headed for serious trouble (1Cor 11:32). However we must assume such a person to be lost.

    There is nothing wrong with praying for anyone's salvation. No matter how "holy" they may appear.

    In Christ,
    Martin. [​IMG]
     
  12. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Martin,
    Excellent post. I am not an expert on this. Just asking for opinions. I tend to think we can have a good idea about the destiny of a person observing and knowing them over AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. As for the drunk seen staggering out of the bar, if this is a way of life, I would say yes, this is probably not a saved person. But, what if this person is saved by grace through the finished work of Jesus Christ, and his wife had run away with another man that afternoon. You get my drift. We only see him in an instant of time. God sees his heart. As for all those claiming to know the destiny of Billy Graham, Hal Lindsey, or Pat Robertson, or those who know historical figures in Hell, you have more insight than I do. I am going to guess Billy Graham has been used by God to bring many more to salvation than I ever will or can imagine.

    This thought occurs to me. If Hitler is in heaven, and Mother Teresa is in hell, what is that to us, to paraphrase a New Testement story.
    We are here to spread the Good News of Gods Love through Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world.
    Thanks again for your post.

    Brother in Christ,

    Michael
     
  13. Martin

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    ==I have no reason to believe that Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, or Hal Lindsey are lost. However I have no real way of knowing they are saved. I just assume that based on their public imagine. Which I have to assume, in the case of someone like Billy Graham, is probably accurate.

    Do I expect to meet Billy Graham in heaven? Yes.

    I think Dr Graham gets a bad rap by people who take things he says out of context. Graham certainly believes the Gospel, and he certainly believes that Christ is the only way of salvation. After all he has spent his life proclaiming that message. I have on my bookshelf his book, "How To Be Born Again". It is filled with the message that Jesus is the way to salvation. Now I am aware that he has made unclear, or foggy, statements about this in recent years. However we must keep several things in mind. (1) Dr Graham has several very serious physical elments. One of which does affect his memory and speech. This can cause him to get his facts messed up (etc). (2) Dr Graham is an old man. Old men will do one of two things: soften or harden. Dr Graham has softened. That is not all together a good thing but it is the way some go. (3) Dr Graham is careful not to offend listeners for no reason (like Dobson, and others do). People need the Gospel, not politics. People need Jesus, not the right wing. That is Graham's focus. I think those who are overly critical of Graham need to step back and look at the larger picture.

    In Christ,
    Martin. [​IMG]
     
  14. drfuss

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    In general,I believe we should not judge other people who claim to be saved. However, Paul seemed to know the people he was writing to were saved. Just a thought.

    drfuss
     
  15. saturneptune

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    drfuss
    Very good point. I suppose if God revealed through the Holy Spirit in each of us WHO needed salvation that would be a way of telling, and sometimes, he brings us to a circumstance where we tell a person about the Gospel. Now, it may or may not bring them to Christ then in God's timing. Or it could be we planted a seed for later. You are correct. God can do anything He sees fit for His Holy purpose. I just see no evidence today than anyone has what Paul had.
     
  16. Ron Arndt

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    Don't tell Benny Hinn that.
     
  17. mima

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    After 25 years of soul winning(leading someone to God) I know the answer to this question. And the answer is yes you can know. But you must know how to lead someone in a sinner's prayer. You must know what question to ask them after the sinners prayer. And you must be able to prove to them, by the Word of God, that they are say. Sealed by the Holy Spirit is the term used in the Bible.
     

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