Reasoning from the scriptures - one version only

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Oct 6, 2004.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Well then please, reason with us out of the scriptures why we should support one translation only.

    This first appeared in another thread, but staying there would drag that off topic. James and I have agreed on one authority for this reasoning, the KJV (I await which edition we will use).

    The clear implication being that the "one version only" then is the KJV (whichever edition).

    This is not a private debate, as long as you agree to use the KJV for your source.
     
  2. Ed Edwards

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    Pfalmes XII.5-7 (KJV1611):

    5. For the oppression of the poore, for
    the sighing of the needy, now will I
    arise (saith the LORD,) I will set him
    in safetie from him that ||puffeth at him.
    6. The wordes of the LORD are
    pure wordes : as siluer tried in a
    furnace of earth purified seuen times.
    7. Thou shalt keep them, (O
    LORD,) thou shall preserue +them,
    from this generation for euer.


    Sidenotes: || Or, would ensnare him.
    + Heb. him, i. euery one of them.

    In these sidenotes "Or" means an
    alternate reading into English that
    is equally good; "Heb" means that there
    is a variation in the sources available
    for the Old Testament.

    At least one of the source texts the
    King James Version translators had
    available to them -- one source shows
    clearly that the pronouns in verse 7
    refers to the humans mentioned in verse 5
    NOT THE WORDS MENTIONED IN VERSE 6.
    The King James Version itself (at least
    in the authorized 1611 edition, the edition
    we still use that was authorized by King
    James) testifies against one version onlyism.

    [​IMG] Praise Iesus! [​IMG]
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    "Be of one mind" in its context (2 Corinthians 13v11) is in Paul's closing comments to the Church at Corinth which had been torn by divisions.

    He wrote those words in Greek. If we were to heed his admonition, don't you think we should heed it in Greek? To be of the same mind as Paul, uisng the reasoning presented, we would all have to use Greek.
     
  5. russell55

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    Paul's prescription for being of one mind:

    Let] nothing [be done] through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

    Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

    Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.


    It doesn't have to do with having a single text, or even agreeing completely, but with giving up our rights and prerogatives for the benefit of others. Having one mind is having an attitude of humility.
     
  6. James_Newman

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    You agreed to use scripture for your arguments, and you agreed to use the KJV. I understand that you have YOUR reasons, but can you show them from scripture?
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    What are you looking for James? I used scripture - I put "Be ye of one mind" in context - it has nothing to do with translations.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    "Be ye of one mind" okay - I think that means that no matter which version we choose to use we should be united in our efforts to serve the Lord and love Him as brothers and sisters in Christ, swallowing our pride and putting aside these petty differences so we can serve Him.
     
  9. James_Newman

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    I'm looking for scripture, C4K. Reason with me with scripture. Show me from the bible that I am mistaken. You didn't put anything in context, you put it back into greek. Were Anglicans today, remember? Show me that I need to think in Greek to be of one mind with Paul. Show me anything you want, but show it with scripture.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Does your scripture show me that I need to think in 1611 English?

    I showed you scripture - your scripture - "Be ye of one mind," swallow your petty differences and get on serving the Lord.

    Your mind says that this verse means we all must use one Bible.
    My mind says that this verse means that we lay aside our differenece and serve the Lord with unity of mind and purpose.

    Which of our minds is the true "one mind?"

    How can you possibly throw out that verse to say that we have to use one version of scripture and ignore my view of the same verse?

    You have me mystified James - I haven't a clue what you are getting at.
     
  11. Orvie

    Orvie
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    huh?
     
  12. GeneMBridges

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    And now we're back to the problem, James....Circular logic. In order to conclude that this Scripture about being of one mind has to do with using one translation, you must somehow conclude that this requires using a single translation and that translation "must" be the KJV.

    First, simple exegesis shows that there is nothing here about having a single version of Scripture.

    Second, the assertion you are making is therefore applicational and not exegetical in and of itself.

    Third, the application rests on circular logic, that is to say that a. The Scripture necessitates that this applies to the use of a single version, and b. That this version is the KJV.

    In other words you can't apply the passage the way you seek to apply it without using circular logic. You assume the premise and argue its truth.

    Circular logic is logical fallacy. Logical fallacy is inherently ILLOGICAL. What is not logical can not be of God, because God is a God of perfect logic. Therefore, versionism is not of God. Now THAT is logical for the reasons laid out in the thread from which this was last spawned.
     
  13. russell55

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    I thought I showed you with scripture what being of one mind means, and it doesn't have much to do with having only one version, or thinking exactly the same thing about everything, but rather, it's everyone having an attitude of humility, and putting others' interests ahead of one's own.

    Since that is the scriptural definition of "having one mind", I don't see how it is impossible to have one mind--as scriptural defined, and as scripturally commanded--while using different versions. Given this definition, please explain how it is necessary to have only one version in order to fulfill this command.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I have a very good freind in the next town, a pastor. He uses the NIV as his Bible. I use the KJV. We are indeed of one mind. How? We heed Paul's admonition to be of one mind and we lay aside our difference over versions to fellowship over the things of God.

    I think what James is looking for is a verse that says that we don't have to have the same version to be of one mind.

    Do you know why we can't "reason from the scriptures" about translations?

    Its simple - the Word of God is silent on translations.
     
  15. GeneMBridges

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    I would also argue that in order to lay aside differences in they way that Scripture teaches does not require conformity in such matters. Matters like translations are, in fact, doctrinal matters. We do not elevate translation preference to the doctrinal level of say, the hypostatic union or salvation by grace through faith. It is not considered a test of fellowship, and, as C4K writes, Scripture is silent on the issue.

    This means the issue falls into the teachings in Romans and 1 Corinthinans regarding matters of adiaphora. Since the idea that is being expressed involves unity within DIVERSITY in such matters, not CONFORMITY in matters of adiaphora, it seems it is the KJVOnly sect that is violating the Scriptures, not the MV crowd, because of the stress on conformity in matters not elevated to tests of orthodox evangelical doctrine.
     
  16. James_Newman

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    So you can only show from your own understanding that my understanding of scriptures is wrong. You say it is simple, the Word is Silent on translations. That is your understanding, mine is different. Once again, the point is made perfectly clear to anyone who sees such things. Your belief is not based on scripture ANY MORE than you SAY mine is not. But when I say I have scripture that backs me up, you say I don't understand scripture. Show me that you do understand scripture. Use it to prove your argument.

    As I said, I would rather argue some meatier issues with you, but I don't think we would get anywhere. Just because you and NIV pastor believe the same thing doesn't mean that either one of you got your beliefs from the word of God. You don't use the word of God to reason, you use your own understanding of what you believe the word of God said. I use a scripture, you say 'but in the greek...' or 'but all scholars say...' or 'you just don't understand the bible...'

    1 Thessalonians 5:21
    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    The King James bible is good, it has proven itself to me. I will hold on to it.
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Show me where I said this.

    I never argued that the KJV is not good, show me where I did that.

    You are fully convinced in your our mind that your view of scripture is the only valid one. You interpret scripture from a pre-concieved bias - you are right, we would get nowhere. I interpret scipture in the light of scripture - you interpret according to a human decision that you have made.
     
  18. AVL1984

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    marking for notification purposes
     
  19. James_Newman

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    Show me where I said this.

    I never argued that the KJV is not good, show me where I did that.

    You are fully convinced in your our mind that your view of scripture is the only valid one. You interpret scripture from a pre-concieved bias - you are right, we would get nowhere. I interpret scipture in the light of scripture - you interpret according to a human decision that you have made.
    </font>[/QUOTE]
    Show me this argument with scripture.

    Show me my interpretation is wrong with scripture.

    You can't argue against an interpretation of a scripture with the same scripture, can you? Now your just arguing the superiority of your intellect over mine. OK, you win, your smarter than me. If being smart makes you think this way, I'll be stupid.

    At the core of this whole issue, our arguments are based on two different foundations.
     
  20. James_Newman

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    I thought I showed you with scripture what being of one mind means, and it doesn't have much to do with having only one version, or thinking exactly the same thing about everything, but rather, it's everyone having an attitude of humility, and putting others' interests ahead of one's own.

    Since that is the scriptural definition of "having one mind", I don't see how it is impossible to have one mind--as scriptural defined, and as scripturally commanded--while using different versions. Given this definition, please explain how it is necessary to have only one version in order to fulfill this command.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not ignoring you russell, but I want to keep this thread on one track. I cant keep too many things going at once in my simple head ;)
     

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