Reasons one cannot pastor a church

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by fortytworc, Apr 4, 2012.

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What can cause one to be or become disqualified from the pastorate?

  1. Divorce/ even before salvation

    62.5%
  2. Re marriage after a divorce/even before salvation

    68.8%
  3. Not having his house in order/can you explain what this means?

    68.8%
  4. Is not a good teacher

    50.0%
  5. Can't control anger

    87.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. fortytworc

    fortytworc
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    If there are reasons given in the Bible which say what disqualifies anyone from being the pastor of a church what are they? Please feel free to bring up reasons that you think of but aren't listed as options. Also, if you can do so, let us know why you believe what you believe. Thank You.
     
  2. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton
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    I voted for both divorce options and the last option.

    If they aren't a good teacher, so be it...but I don't feel that should be a reason one cannot pastor. His church may not thrive, but I've seen some poor teachers who still get their points across.

    I didn't vote for the "house not in order" because I felt it was too vague.


    Divorce can be a multitude of things. I don't know that I believe any divorced can be 100% to blame on one person. A breakdown typically has to happen somewhere. So even if one spouse commits adultery, which the Bible states for divorced purposes is acceptable, I'm not sure you can completely say the other person is blameless. Seeing as how strict the Bible is on divorce, it would be hard for me to have a Pastor who has been divorced.

    I'm not saying I won't ever change my mind on that or couldn't be convinced otherwise either. Just my .02

    As far as anger goes...I feel there is a "good" angry, but if you can't control your anger, chances are it isn't the good kind.
     
  3. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    *None of the Above*


    It is the overall character of the man. Divorce is not the end all be all sin. One must investigate these things. Remarriage is not the mother of all sins either. In fact, divorce and remarriage is allowed by Scripture in some cases.

    What do we mean by his house not being in order? Most houses with teens in them are not in order. At what point do we let a parent off the hook and place the responsibility and consequences on the child (young adult?)?

    There are right reasons to be angry. There are right ways to be angry. This must be investigated.

    If we look at 1 Tim and Titus we see the lists are not the same. In Titus the new convert requirement is gone. This again tells me that the overall character is an issue.

    Just because a man is an elder does not mean he is perfect. God is still as much at work in him as he is in the 9 year old that just got saved or the 70 year who just got saved.

    Patterns of sin are an issue. A refusal to grow in Christ-likeness is an issue.

    Do not lay hands on a man quickly but test his character.
     
  4. fortytworc

    fortytworc
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    Thanks for participating!
     
  5. fortytworc

    fortytworc
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    thank you for your time!
     
  6. annsni

    annsni
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    I believe there is a huge difference between divorce and remarriage before/after salvation. We have a pastor who has been married for over 30 years - but he was divorced as a young man. He was a drug addict, alcoholic and he and his wife divorced with no children. He remarried and was saved after his remarriage, had two children and has walked uprightly with the Lord for many MANY years. I do not think that his divorce over 35 years ago should be held against him unless he was the same man he was then.

    The house in order is a pretty simple thing in my book. Is there chaos or general peace? Is there hospitality? How are his kids - completely defiant and disobedient or generally good kids (every kid has an issue here and there). Is he thought well amongst his neighbors? That's the sort of thing to look at.

    Not a good teacher? Hmm - this one is tougher. I do believe that a pastor is to teach and as such, he's got to be decent at it.

    Can't control his anger? That's a problem. Self control is a fruit of the Spirit and if he can't control his anger, why is that?
     
  7. fortytworc

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    Thank you. I know some churches (mostly conservative Baptist) put a divorce man in the category of having more than one wife so prohibiting them from being a pastor. I suppose a category I could have included is "Being a Female"
     
  8. JeepDawg

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    I voted for the two divorce options.

    I was on the fence about this one until I stumbled upon Matthew 5:32 which says that if you marry some one who has been divorced, you make that person an adulterer. Since that was said smack in the middle of the Sermon on the Mount, I reckon it's got a lot of heft behind it.

    My parents are divorced and my father remarried. I very much don't like Matthew 5:32, because I love my dad. But it is what it is, and Christ spelled it out pretty plain, as was His style.

    As it relates to a pastor; shouldn't a pastor meet a higher standard? How can he set an example for the rest of us if he can't keep his own family together? I know there are a ton of circumstances out there. I know that life throws all sorts of things at you. I know that a preacher is as much of a human as the rest of us.

    I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but my current pastor, a divorcee who is married to a divorcee, can't produce any scriptural basis for his position which is that it's okay to be divorced, remarried, and be a pastor.

    I'm not being snooty. I truly would like to find that scripture. I like my current pastor, but I love God. I have to abide by His rules, not man's.
     
  9. seekingthetruth

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    "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach" (1 Tim. 3:2 - KJV).

    It seems to me that the Bible demands that a pastor be a good teacher. It never mentions preacher, just teacher.

    "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
    1 Timothy 3:2, KJV

    "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."
    1 Timothy 3:12, KJV

    "If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly."
    Titus 1:6, KJV


    I see two requirements for an elder in these scriptures.

    First, that a pastor should have only been married once. How can a divorced pastor effectively counsel a couple with marital problems?

    Secondly, it says husband, not wife, which tells me that since a woman cannot be a husband then she also cannot be an elder.

    Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

    Should a man be an elder that goes against the teachings of Christ?

    It really doesnt matter what our opinion on this is. The Bible is clear that only men can be elders, and elders should only have one wife. Period.

    John
     
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy
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    All of the above. Not following God's commands regarding His qualifications for the pastorate has resulted in the gross iniquity we see in pulpits all across this nation. Unfaithful men, perverts, megalomaniacs, self-serving wolves in sheep's clothing. :(
     
  11. Baptist Believer

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    How can a man, who has had a spouse reject him, counsel a couple where one or both persons are rejecting each other?

    How can a man who has had a failure in any kind of relationship effectively counsel those who are having difficulty in their relationships?

    How can a sinner effectively counsel sinners?
     
  12. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    We are all sinners, but this is addressing divorce, not all sin. In fact, the text doesnt even say that divorce is a sin, it just says that a divorced man cannot be an elder.

    If these are God's instructions to us, then why do we try to find loopholes to get around them?

    It doesnt matter what God's reasoning is for this requirement, it is still His requirement, and we are required to obey it.

    John
     
  13. Baptist Believer

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    Yes, but your rationale (which is what I was addressing) is that a divorced person would necessarily be ineffective in counseling a couple with marital problems.

    That position is supportable only with a number of unsaid assumptions about divorced people that are quite frankly insulting and often untrue.

    I was trying to kindly point you back to a more charitable position by pointing out that those who have experienced rejection may actually be in a much better position to help those couples who one or both persons are rejecting each other. These situations are complex and if you’ve never been there, you really don’t understand the depths of the issues.

    That’s not to say that a person who has never experienced that kind of trouble would be ineffective, but to assert that someone who has would necessarily be ineffective is ridiculous.

    Divorce always involves sin, although it is possible for one of the parties in a divorce to be guilt-free of the sin. One person can reject another because, as Jesus put it, the hardness of the heart.

    God is rejected all the time yet He is without sin.

    Now I’m not saying that the guilt-free party in a divorce is sinless, but that person can actively be doing everything in their ability to be the best spouse they can be, yet find themselves rejected.

    Do you think God condemns the rejected for being rejected?

    Do you think a person is necessarily of poor character because they have been rejected?

    Actually, it doesn’t.

    It says “husband of one wife” which could mean a number of different things. Since the context of the passage seems to indicate that is an issue of character, an appropriate way of understanding the requirement is that the elder should be a “one woman man.”

    May I be so bold as to point out that Jesus Himself was not the “husband of one wife”?

    Not looking for loopholes, just trying to be faithful to the text. The text does not mention divorce.

    Sure, but we first need to understand the “requirement” so that we may faithfully obey it and not claim it says something that it doesn’t.
     
  14. annsni

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    LOL - Seriously? How can an alcoholic counsel an alcoholic? They do all the time. Those who have come through to the other side do so.

    How can ANYONE who have had marriage troubles counsel someone who has marriage troubles? Because they are on the other side.

    If we say "how can a sinner effectively counsel sinners", then we will never have counseling. Ever.
     
  15. mont974x4

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    Who better to preach grace than those who have already come to know it first hand?


    I hear people complain about Christians not being real or authentic. What people need today is the same thing that they received in the first century of the Church. That is real people, with real faults, sharing the Good News of God's restoring grace.


    NASB emphasis mine
    Luk 12:48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

    Luk 7:47 "For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little."
     
  16. annsni

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    Can someone show me where a divorced man cannot be a pastor? Because I see in the Scriptures that he be the "husband of one wife". When Jesus spoke to the woman at the well, He said "...you have had 5 husbands" so that says to me that she no longer has 5 husbands. Unless each one of them died, what is being argued here is that they would all still be her husbands. Instead, she was no longer married to all of them and Jesus didn't say that she HAS 5 husbands.

    We absolutely need to watch because I think more than the "husband of one wife", we need to look at the other qualities and someone who went through a divorce is most likely lacking in one of the other qualities but there is redemption. Why do we hold someone accountable for something that is in the significant past, before they were saved and in the time since they have been saved, they show a complete life change and have lived for Christ for many years? I mean I don't think that a pastor who was divorced in the last few years should be leading but someone who was divorced at 22, over 30 years ago? I do believe there is a big difference.
     
  17. annsni

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    I agree. We were once in a church that was full of perfect, happy people. I'd never have gone to any of them for counsel and instead went outside the church for advice/counsel.

    But now in this church? I know the people who struggled with certain issues but have come out on the other side and they are the ones I go to. They know what I'm going through. It makes a huge difference.
     
  18. Baptist Believer

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    Yep. That was the point.

    I was just extending the logic of his argument.
     
  19. mont974x4

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    We don't have sinners counseling people. We have saints, who were sinners and who are still being transformed into the image of the Son so we are not yet perfect but are being perfected, counseling people.



    This was not directed at anybody, I was just thinking aloud.
     
    #19 mont974x4, Apr 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2012
  20. annsni

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    Whew!! I was so confused!!! :thumbs:
     

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