Featured Reasons why the Bible teaches a Pretribulational rapture

The above is no answer at all and your remark about confusing me with full preterists is patently false since I have been espousing the truth of The General Resurrection and Judgment of all the dead at the Return of Jesus Christ for many months! A Truth which you continually deny.

As I recall the conversation went something like this:

So I am still waiting your answer DHK!

 

1Th 4:14 for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,
1Th 4:15 for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living--who do remain over to the presence of the Lord--may not precede those asleep,
1Th 4:16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
1Th 4:17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be;
1Th 4:18 so, then, comfort ye one another in these words.
--Jesus comes to the clouds; not to the Mount of Olives (Zech.14:1-4).
He comes invisibly; not in spledor and glory with his holy angels.
He comes for his saints; not to take vengeance on those that believe not the gospel (1Thes.1:7-9).
He comes for to take the saints to heaven; not to deliver the Jews on earth. (Young's Literal Trans.)
--The two comings are so different they cannot be reconciled. This coming is the rapture and it takes place before the Tribulation. Therefore Paul comforts the saints at Thessalonica with these words. It is comorting to know one is not going to face the wrath of God in the Tribulation.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
--We will be gathered together with him when the Lord comes, but the time is not now. It is still in the future. Certain events must happen first.

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
--Make note, His coming is immanent. It always has been. If it were after the Tribulation it would not be immanent. For the Tribulation lasts seven years.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Before he comes there shall be a "falling away."
According to secular sources there are over one billion "Christians" today.
Of that one billion that profess the name of Christ maybe 1% are actually saved. See the thread on "Christian."
Have you ever read the testimony of Charles Templeton? He started out as an evangelist with Billy Graham. He says he doen't beleive in God now.
The public school system won't allow a school teacher to put a Bible on her desk; but they will allow another teacher to be openly gay. Our society is anti-christ.

Then the man of sin will be revealed, the son of perdition. This is the antichrist.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
--He will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim himself as God.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
--Paul had already taught them these things.
Verse 6 in the ESV says:
2Th 2:6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
That restraining influence is the Holy Spirit. It is the believers presence. They are the light of the world, the salt of the earth. They are the only ones that are holding back wickedness in all of its ugly form to totally permeate this world. That restraiing influence will be removed. That is the rapture.

2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
--Satan is at work now. Evil is rampant now. See Iraq and ISIS, and Hamas. When the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way (the rapture), then the Antichrist will be fully revealed. Eventually he will be killed by the Lord Jesus Christ (after seven years).

2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
--The coming of the Antichrist will work miracles with the power of Satan. He will show power, signs and lying wonders.
--He will deceive the unsaved that indeed they will perish. They don't love the truth (no believers in the Tribulation). God shall send them a strong delusion (that the Antichrist is God).

2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
--Therefore they shall all be damned because they will follow that lie. They will not believe the truth.

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
--Paul thanks the Lord for these believers. They will not face any of this, for they will be raptured before the Antichrist appears on the scene. He already explained that to them in 1Thes.4:13-18.

To them all these are words of comfort, not fear. To the unsaved they would be words are fear, not the saved. The saved won't be there:
2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

 

None of what you post above makes invalid the promise of Jesus Christ in the following Scripture!

John 5:28, 29
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Last Day means Last Day and GOD can not lie!

 

Could you please identify the location of the above Scripture you cite from Young's?

 

Some of the very sources you have quoted in the past disagree with you. Abd when that was pointed out to you, you have had to back-peddle.
The fact is that this passage teaches two resurrections, and very clearly so: a resurrection of the just and a resurrection of the unjust. That is two, not one resurrection. Revelation 20 tells us that they are separated by a thousand years but you don't care about that, you simply deny it and allegorize the passage.
The fact is that here (as previously pointed out to you), no time period is given between these two resurrections. It doesn't necessitate that these two resurrections take place at the same time. The rest of Scripture tells us that they don't. There are two resurrections. Even this passage tells us that. Your blindness to the truth because of you adherence to covenantism and your hatred of dispensationalism keeps you from seeing the truth.

 

It seems I put it in the wrong place. The passage in 1Thes. 4:14-18 is quoted from Young's.

 

That statement is patently false. I have not backpedaled on anything.

The fact is it teaches one resurrection and that is proven by the other Scripture you ignore.

No time period is given because there is no time period. You are not letting Scripture speak to you, you are reading Scripture with your dispensational bias!

And you have ignored the following Scripture and they clearly refute dispensational doctrine!


John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Last Day means Last Day and GOD can not lie!

 

Given Verse 16 above can you say that Jesus Christ comes invisibly? You can not!

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

None of the scriptures DHK showed proves a Pre-Trib rapture, in fact, 2 The 2:3 refutes it.

2 The 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Verse 1 tells us this is speaking of the rapture, because it speaks of our "gathering together unto him".

Verse 3 tells us this day will not come until the man of sin "be revealed".

Verse 4 tells us the man of sin will sit in the temple of God (the holy place) "showing himself" that he is God. This is what Jesus spoke of in Mat 24:15;

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

We are told the rapture will not take place until we see the Antichrist sit in the temple of God "showing himself" that he is God.

This takes place during the "great tribulation";

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:16-22 are simply describing verse 15 and the events that take place afterward.

Christians are still in the world, because Jesus comes to shorten these days to save the elect from being completely wiped out.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jesus still has not come yet, he comes in vss. 29-31. This is when the elect are gathered from the "four winds", not Israel only.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christians will see the man of sin, they will see the abomination of desolation. This happens BEFORE the rapture DURING the great tribulation.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps he is Obama, or Pope Frances, or one of the Islamic Extremists. They are alive. Christ's coming is just around the corner. These men we have all seen. They just have not yet manifested themselves as one-world rulers. There will be one who will rise to the top and try to unite the world, and bring temporary peace to the world. At that time Christ will come. That is all it is saying.

Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
--This is the antichrist. He has a bow, but no arrows. He will bring a false sense of peace to the earth, a one world economy, one world government. These processes are in action even as we speak.

 

Two shall be working in the field; one shall be taken and the other shall be left. The one taken will be taken up to meet Jesus in the clouds. His coming will be totally invisible to those on the earth. They will not see him; not those on the earth.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

And I am holding my breath waiting for your rebuttal to the Following Scripture:


John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Last Day means Last Day and GOD can not lie!

 

The rider on the white horse really represents the spread of the Gospel!

I must say you have a vivid imagination.

 

Resurrection of the dead, someone looking at someone, then "poof", they're gone, graves bursting open, and the lost won't know...see this???

 

He's gaining strength, encouragement by looking at his Tim LaHaye poster he has tacked up on his bedroom wall....

 

But he don't like LeHaye's co-author of that wonderful piece of fiction Charting the End Times, Dr. Thomas Ice.

 

I tend to stay away from fiction. The books you recommend are not the best either. I know you won't listen to me.
So I will quote some from the respected Dr. John MacArthur. It is not a book on dispensationalism. It is simply an abbreviated commentary.

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

This is just a description of the one verse by MacArthur, a fairly accurate one. I guess Calvinists aren't as united as they say they are??
There is not much to disagree with here.
Would you like to hear his summary on the Tribulation as well?

 

10 Pages and still waiting on the mythical proof of a pre-trib rapture...

 

I hope you are not holding your breath. I had to give up after only a few minutes waiting on DHK to respond to four verses from the Gospel of John.

 

Why even say this? Honestly, what kind of argument is this?

First I have never heard any Calvinist claim that we were united in all doctrines. That's absurd. Beyond soteriology and maybe ecclesiology, many Cals disagree in many places. So what?

Second, are the non-cals any more united? The Oneness Pentecostal's, the Wesleyans, the Holiness folks, the Open Theists and the Classical Arminians and whatever other version of Arminianism you can think of, are all the picture of unity I suppose?

If I held my breath waiting on proof of the pre-trib rapture, I'd have turned blue a while ago...