Received the Holy Spirit to believe

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, May 28, 2013.

  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Acts 19:
    2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether [a]there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.


    John 6:63
    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are life.

    Do you have to receive the Holy Spirit to believe or the work of the Holy Spirit through His word to believe?

    How did the Acts people believe without receiving the Holy Spirit until after?
     
  2. preacher4truth

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    Go read D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones book 'Joy Unspeakable' and you'll receive and answer.

    Good to see you straightening out the mess you made on the other thread and doing some study here. :thumbsup:
     
  3. DrJamesAch

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    That's sad, if you knew the answer you should have just given it to him, instead of making him go find and buy a book on it. It's a good question for a Calvinist and as a preacher you are supposed to always be ready to have an answer.
     
  4. canadyjd

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    It is a good question. I think we can understand it in the context of the passage.

    First, believers in Acts did not have a uniformed experience in receiving Holy Spirit. This event is one of several (3? I can think of off the top of my head) that speaks of those receiving Holy Spirit "speaking in tongues and prophesying". This phrase is properly understood, IMHO, to mean they spoke in a known language and proclaimed the truth of Jesus Christ as Messiah. This is an "enabling grace" or gift of Holy Spirit to accomplish a purpose... that is proclaiming Christ.

    Also seen in Acts 2, Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles and they spoke., and in Acts 10, Holy Spirit came upon the household of Cornelius while Peter preached (no laying on of hands) and they spoke and were then baptized, and in Acts 19, Holy Spirit came upon disciples of John (or Apollos chap.18) after Paul instructed them in the truth and they were baptized and Paul laid hands upon them.... then Holy Spirit came upon them.

    In the case of the Apostles, they had already received Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed upon them during the period prior to His ascension (John 20:22) so they were already believers before this enabling gift of Holy Spirit came upon them.

    In the case of Cornelius and his family (Acts 10), there appears to be a simultaneous event. As Peter is giving the sermon, (10:42-43) "...And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who as been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead (43) Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

    At that point, where faith in Christ is urged for forgiveness of sins, Holy Spirit moved upon those who listened.

    (v.44) "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message"

    The result was they "spoke in tongues and exalting God" and were recognized as believers ready for baptism even though they were Gentiles.

    And then Acts 19, which you are asking about. These were either followers of Apollos or John the Baptist. Paul instructs them concerning Jesus. They are baptized, Paul lays on hands and they receive this enabling gift of Holy Spirit to speak of Jesus Christ in other languages.

    So, properly understood, IMHO, the giving of Holy Spirit in Acts 19 is referring to the enabling gift of Holy Spirit in proclaiming Jesus Christ as Messiah,...

    ....not as a formula for salvation... i.e. first comes belief (Acts 19:2) then comes proclamation of Christ (v.4) then comes baptism (v.5) then comes laying on of hands (v.6a) then comes Holy Spirit (v.6b)

    I don't think anyone would believe that is the formula for salvation.
     
  5. psalms109:31

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    I think this is a real thinking question on our own beliefs like

    John 7:39
    By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    What are we going to do about it, reconcile it and make it work within our belief system?

    Do we make veils to see the scriptures?
     
  6. psalms109:31

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    The Holy Spirit can use a donkey, a worm, a burning bush, to bring His message to someone, it doesn't make them alive, but only for the time being used.

    Would Moses without the burning bush do what he did with all the excuses he gave the burning bush of why he shouldn't do it?
     
    #6 psalms109:31, May 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2013
  7. awaken

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    I am trying to follow what you are trying to say????
    Are you saying we can be born again without the Holy Spirit?
     
  8. Scarlett O.

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    This is just my two cents, but here goes.


    These men believed, but not specifically in Christ Jesus as Lord. Why do I believe that?

    [1] How is one saved in the first place? Romans 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

    [2] John’s baptism had a specific purpose and it wasn’t salvation. Acts 13:24 "Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and [water] baptism to all the people of Israel." One could not confess that Jesus was Lord and could not believe in their hearts that God raised Him from the dead before it happened.

    [3] Confessing Jesus in salvation cannot happen without the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:3 "Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, 'Jesus is cursed,' and no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit". The “say” here is a confession, imho.

    [4] If the Holy Spirit does not dwell inside of a person, they are not saved. Romans 8:9 "You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him."

    John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance only, not renewal – by a Jew for a Jew only, for the nation of Israel only, extending the concept of repentance from the Old Testament scriptures of which they would have understood. He warned them to repent and that the kingdom of heaven was at hand and that someone was coming, the Messiah, to save them. These men has repented, turned away from sin, and believed salvation was coming, but hadn’t had an encounter with the Savior via the Holy Spirit.


    Neither John's baptism nor their repentance saved them. The Holy Spirit did not dwell in them merely because of their acceptance of John’s teachings. His preaching, teaching, warnings, and baptisms were critical indeed because it prepared their hearts for the coming of the resurrected Jesus Christ.

    Some people call the book of Acts a transitional period. I agree, in some sense, with this. We don’t have apostles anymore and though we can still see miracles, there are no more miraculous gifts that serve as “signs” anymore. There were going to be people who lived and witnessed the ministry of John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, and the Apostle Paul. Paul was making sure that those Jews who accepted what John the Baptist preached understood the full completion of that teaching in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
     
  9. psalms109:31

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    Salvation is a process that since we all are different God deals with each of us differently. The first step isn't to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. As Spurgeon said regeneration before faith is ridiculous...

    Faith is made up of three things knowledge that comes from God and then a verb belief and trust an action from us.

    First is knowledge and Jesus tells us to believe to trust in Him He doesn't add any thing to that.

    Why, because trust is not a work.

    Then we believe in Him a verb. Faith without deeds is a dead faith.

    The seed His word has been planted.

    It is the work of Jesus when we put His yoke on and learn from Him He teaches us what to believe.

    It is those who believe will receive the Holy Spirit in His timing not ours we trust in the promise of God.

    John 7:39
    By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.


    Would Moses without the burning bush do what he did with all the excuses he gave the burning bush of why he shouldn't do it?
     
    #9 psalms109:31, May 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2013
  10. salzer mtn

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    I would like to see proof of this statement please.
     
  11. psalms109:31

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    "1. First, NEGATIVELY; and here my first observation is that any other way of preaching the gospel-warrant is absurd. If I am to preach faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. But you will tell me that I ought to preach it only to those who repent of their sins. Very well; but since true repentance of sin is the work of the Spirit, any man who has repentance is most certainly saved, because evangelical repentance never can exist in an unrenewed soul. Where there is repentance there is faith already, for they never can be separated. So, then, I am only to preach faith to those who have it. Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners. "Nay," saith one, "but we mean that a man must have some good desires towards Christ before he has any warrant to believe in Jesus." Friend, do you not know what all good desires have some degree of holiness in them? But if a sinner hath any degree of true holiness in him it must be the work of the Spirit, for true holiness never exists in the carnal mind, therefore, that man is already renewed, and therefore saved. Are we to go running up and down the world, proclaiming life to the living, casting bread to those who are fed already, and holding up Christ on the pole of the gospel to those who are already healed?"

    C.H. Spurgeon Warrant of faith.

    "My fear is lest the reader should rest content with understanding what is to be done, and yet never do it. Better the poorest real faith actually at work, than the best ideal of it left in the region of speculation. The great matter is to believe on the Lord Jesus at once. Never mind distinctions and definitions. A hungry man eats though he does not understand the composition of his food, the anatomy of his mouth, or the process of digestion: he lives because he eats. Another far more clever person understands thoroughly the science of nutrition; but if he does not eat he will die, with all his knowledge. There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! "He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life."

    .H. Spurgeon all of grace
     
  12. convicted1

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    vvvvvvvv



    Here's your answer.....LOL....
     
  13. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    All Spurgeon is referring to here is a person with a head full of doctrine but never did believe verses a person that did believe but lacked knowledge.
     
  14. convicted1

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    But don't disregard this from CHS, Salzer MTN:


     
  15. psalms109:31

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    Thank you Convicted1

    "The life of a sinner is in Christ. If you take the Father apart from the Son, though he loves his elect, and decrees that they shall live, yet life is only in his Son. If you take God the Spirit apart from Jesus Christ, though it is the Spirit that gives us spiritual life, yet it is life in Christ, life in the Son. We dare not, and cannot apply in the first place, either to God the Father, or to God the Holy Ghost for spiritual life. The first thing we are led to do when God brings us out of Egypt is to eat the Passover—the very first thing. The first means whereby we get life is by feeding upon the flesh and blood of the Son of God; living in him, trusting on him, believing in his grace and power. Our second thought was—there is life in Christ."

    C.H. Spurgeon

    Regeneration before faith is not the Gospel, the Gospel is in four books Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. If you do want to sum up the Gospel in one verse, one sentence.

    http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols37-39/chs2300.pdf
     

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