Receiving Fellow Christians In Crisis

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Dale McNamee, Aug 21, 2003.

  1. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Everyone!
    As you know about the outcome of the Episcopal Church's General Convention, here's a story on what happens when you stand up for Scripture.

    http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030811-123924-4648r.htm

    My church,Bishop Cummins Memorial Reformed Episcopal, sent out this letter regarding aiding the congregation of St.Timothy. My wife and I used to belong to St.Timothy,we left 2 years ago over the direction of the Episcopal Church (not the direction of St, Timothy) and have many friends there.

    In Christ,

    Dale [​IMG]

    Here's the letter:

    RECEIVING FELLOW CHRISTIANS IN CRISIS


    “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.
    Joseph in Genesis 50:20


    God bless you and keep you today and everyday!

    A remarkable occasion of Christian fellowship, worship and testimony has apparently come from the crisis in the Episcopal Church USA. As you know, the majority of their bishops voted to ordain an unrepentant homosexual as a Bishop. As a result, many, perhaps the larger number, of Episcopalians have chosen to disassociate themselves from the General Convention and bishops who were responsible for that action. This has had far reaching consequences for individual churches, including our neighbor parish, St. Timothy’s in Catonsville. Their rector, the Rev. Steven Randall, their Vestry and members have been given what amounts to an ultimatum by their bishop – get with the program (acceptance of homosexuality) or leave. They have chosen to leave. As a result, they will be a homeless congregation as of September 14. The Executive Committee of our Vestry (The Senior Warden, Junior Warden, Finance Chairman and Education Chairman), Bishop Gregory Hotchkiss and myself have concurred in extending an invitation to the Rector, Vestry and congregation of St. Timothy’s parish to worship with us until they know what direction they will take. Their first Sunday will be September 14. We are now praying together and discussing how two parish churches can share the same worship, ministry and space. Of course, we share a close common heritage in the prayer book, the sacraments, Episcopal structure, 39 articles of religion, vestments, and the authority of Holy Scripture. We also have nearly parallel services; they have been conducting an early traditional prayer book service followed by a “blended service” mixing the contemporary language with praise and worship music. Recently I put out on our church sign the designation that we are “born-again, Bible-believing Episcopalians.” Their Senior Warden, Paul Willis, told me when they saw that, they wanted to put on their sign: “So are we.” In very many ways, these two parishes are truly “sister” churches.

    I am asking you to pray for and welcome with open arms our brothers and sisters from St. Timothy’s parish. They are deeply and profoundly saddened by the actions of their bishops, which have betrayed their flock, foisted a terrible and destructive sin upon the church, and scandalized the cause of Christ. They have also been persecuted, driven from their church. Rev. Randall has been forced out of his post, divested of his compensation, and will have to leave his home. It is my intention to do everything I can, and on behalf of our church, to ameliorate this wrongdoing and give the flock of God from St. Timothy’s safe harbor and a warm welcome at Bishop Cummins Memorial Church.

    In addition, our Bishops, led by our Presiding Bishop, the Most Reverend Leonard Riches, who is also our diocesan bishop, have been invited to an extraordinary convocation of Anglican bishops from the US and the world in Plano, Texas, to pray and explore ways to relate as Anglican Christians outside the Episcopal Church USA. I expect that our Reformed Episcopal Church will be somehow related to the greater Anglican Church worldwide in the coming months and years. I have written a larger article about this in our church newsletter, which you will receive soon.

    We must be perfectly clear: the actions of the Episcopal Church bishops are not the actions of our bishops, the two churches have been separated since 1873 and there is no direct consequence of their actions to us. However, we are in a unique position as an evangelical church of Anglican heritage to provide assistance and support to our brethren in the other church. I will ask the Vestry to convene next week for a special meeting to consider our response to this emergency.

    Remember our REC motto: “In essentials Unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things, Charity.” As the people of St Tim’s unite with us in worship and ministry, we need to ask for God’s grace to be always hospitable, charitable and flexible, for what man meant for evil, God will turn to good.

    Thank you all for your kindness in this matter,

    Pastor Paul Schenck+ [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am interested in having your response on something. There is a move afoot in the REC to join with the Anglo Catholic Church in America, and in doing so, the REC would come in to full communion with Rome through ordination of the bishop of the Anglo Catholic Church.

    I was surprised to hear that Bishop Riches is open to this idea and wonder how you feel your parish would recieve such a union. You would, of course, be allowed to maintain your distinctive (and quite beautiful) Anglican ligturgical rubrics.

    As for me, this will raise quite a quandry when it happens, for I was raised in the ECUSA (long before they apostacized) and will be quite tempted to "go home" to the liturgy I grew up with. The hard part in all this would be that I have a number of things I do at St. Ann's parish and a number of dear friends whom I would miss.

    Schism sure makes it hard on people, doesn't it?

    Cordially in Christ through the Blessed Virgin,

    Brother Ed

    PS That is a very nice letter, and one that I am going to share with the Vicar at St. Michael's REC. I think he should use it to "go fishing" for Episcopalians who are sick and tired fed up with the nonsense of the ECUSA.
     
  3. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Steven Randall...My Kind of Guy!
     
  4. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    While your are protesting my dear Anglicans, complete your protest and come to the truth where it now resides, in Protestantism. Take this opportunity to investigate what the protest has been about all these years.

    May all the true believers in Jesus, the Son of God, the Christ come out from among the apostates and find refuge among the true believers in the protestant churches.
     
  5. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Catholic Convert,
    The REC is not linking up with the Anglo Catholic Church but with the Anglian Province In America (APA) and you can get the details at http://www.recus.org

    In Christ,

    Dale
     
  6. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Yelsew,
    Thanks for your kind words regarding Fr. Steve Randall. [​IMG]

    There are more like him out there who are deciding where they and their congregations will worship. Even more so after the October meeting in Plano,Texas by the conservative bishops from Africa,Asia,Latin America,and the US.

    I also agree with your second post on Protestantism. [​IMG]

    In Christ,
     
  7. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry Dale. I was a little foggy on the details. From what I heard (from my son's vicar) this will mean communion with Rome.

    Is that so, or did I get the wrong information?

    Yelsew -- Anglicans are Protestants. They are not in communion with Rome at this time, and they left protesting the Roman rite. Try to get your facts straight. Thank you.
     
  8. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Catholic Convert,

    I apologize for apparent harsh "rebuke" and was merely giving the website so that you could read about the REC/APA merger and hopefully clarify things with your son's vicar. :( [​IMG]

    The REC is also looking into coming into communion with other orthodox Anglicans who share our beliefs.

    Bishop Cummins practices open communion with those who are truly Christian. Here's the statement from our Website http://www.bishopcummins.org

    " We embrace the historic truths revealed by Jesus Christ to the Holy Apostles, confirmed by the ecumenical councils during the first five centuries of Christianity, and reconfirmed by the great Reformers. We confess the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds, and embrace the liturgy as it was developed by the Church Fathers.

    We also recognize as true Christians, all who confess Christ as Lord and Savior, the Holy Scriptures as God's Word, the blessed Trinity, and we invite them to receive the Lord's Supper with us."

    This goes for the REC also. [​IMG]

    In Christ,

    Dale
     
  9. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Dale --

    I did not find your response to me harsh at all. However, I still am interested in the question "Does this union mean union with Rome?"

    I have been told yes. What say ye?

    Thanks.
     
  10. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Catholic Convert,
    You wrote: " I did not find your response to me harsh at all. However, I still am interested in the question "Does this union mean union with Rome?"

    I have been told yes. What say ye?"

    My answer would be "No" since there are great doctrinal differences that seperate us.

    However, the REC motto: “In essentials Unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things, Charity” would be the guide in our relationship with Rome and other denominations. [​IMG]

    In Christ,

    Dale
     
  11. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    0
    It appears the ECUSA has committed yet another sin. They have taken property that belongs to others by a show of right.
     
  12. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was not able to find the link to the open communion policy. One thing I don't understand about Anglicans is how they can all share communion together. Apparently, some Anglicans have a view of the Real Presence similar to the Roman Catholics, others have a view similar to Lutherans, and still others deny the Real Presence altogether. There are serious consequences for those who deny that the Lord is substantially present in His supper when the Body and Blood of Christ is truly offered.
     
  13. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    And in exactly which of literally thousands of Protestant churches would the truth reside?

    One which says that baptism is necessary for salvation? Or one that says it is not?

    One that believes in OSAS? Or one that does not?

    Pre or post trib?

    Wine or grape juice for the Lord's Supper?

    Well, you get the idea.
     
  14. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear John,
    I read your post and I apologize for not being clearer regarding the source of my quote regarding "open communion".

    The statement comes from the "Who We Are" page that opens up after you click on the "About Us" link.

    Here's that particular quote: "We embrace the historic truths revealed by Jesus Christ to the Holy Apostles, confirmed by the ecumenical councils during the first five centuries of Christianity, and reconfirmed by the great Reformers. We confess the Apostles' and Nicene Creeds, and embrace the liturgy as it was developed by the Church Fathers.

    We also recognize as true Christians, all who confess Christ as Lord and Savior, the Holy Scriptures as God's Word, the blessed Trinity, and we invite them to receive the Lord's Supper with us."

    And here is Article XXVIII from the 39 Articles regarding the Lord's Supper.

    Of the Lord's Supper.

    The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another; but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.

    Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.

    The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.

    The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper was not by Christ's ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped."

    I hope that this helps! [​IMG]

    In Christ,

    Dale
     
  15. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.

    The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.



    That is not the historic faith of the apostles. That is Cranmer's Black Rubric, if I remember right, and he was a Calvinist.

    I am disappointed that you would try to pass off such a statement as being in line with the teachings of the Early Fathers.
     
  16. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks. If your group follows the 39 articles, open communion makes sense. I once was told by a priest that the 39 articles were only a political document and Anglicans were bound only by the prayer book they were using.
     
  17. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2003
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cranmer wrote the first prayer book of the Anglican church, the 1549 Book of Common Prayer. That prayer book was a product of his collaboration with the Lutherans. However, by 1552, political pressure forced a change to a more Calvinistic understanding of the Holy Supper. Here's an example:

    The body of our Lorde Jesus Christe whiche was geven for thee, preserve thy bodye and soule unto everlasting lyfe.(1549)

    Take and eate this, in remembraunce that Christ dyed for thee, and feede on him in thy hearte by faythe, with thankesgeving.(1552)

    English speaking Lutherans still use the 1549 Book of Common Prayer as the basis for their Common Service liturgy. And, I understand, all Anglicans consider the 1549 prayer book to be valid although seldom used.
     
  18. trying2understand

    trying2understand
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    3,316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Third Ecumenical Council in the year 431
    Third Session (July 11)

    "On the following day, 11 July, the third session took place. The legates had read the Acts of the first session and now demanded only that the condemnation of Nestorius should be formally read in their presence. When this had been done, the three legates severally pronounced a confirmation in the pope's name. The exordium of the speech of Philip is celebrated:

    It is doubtful to none, nay it has been known to all ages, that holy and blessed Peter, the prince and head of the Apostles, the column of the Faith, the foundation of the Catholic Church, received from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, the keys of the Kingdom, and that to him was given the power of binding and loosing sins, who until this day and for ever lives and judges in his successors. His successor in order and his representative, our holy and most blessed Pope Celestine . . . "

    If your church embraces the historic truths revealed by Jesus Christ to the Holy Apostles, confirmed by the ecumenical councils during the first five centuries of Christianity, you may need to look again. It seems that you are missing quite a bit.

    web page
     
  19. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear Trying 2 Understand,

    Here's the REC Mission Statement :

    Mission Statement

    Built upon the foundation of the authoritative Word of God, the Holy Scriptures, the Reformed Episcopal Church declares her first priority to be that of evangelism, the bold and unadulterated proclamation of salvation by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 8:4). In keeping the faith once delivered to the saints, the Reformed Episcopal Church, however, does not believe evangelism to be the end, but rather the beginning of her divinely given vocation. Thus, she is deeply committed to discipleship, the work of training evangelized men and women in Christian living (St. Matthew 28:20). This inescapably means that the Reformed Episcopal Church sets a high priority on biblical worship. When the Gospel is truly proclaimed and the mercies of God are made known, redeemed men and women must be led to offer their bodies as a living sacrifice, which is their spiritual service of worship (Romans 12:1). Thus, the Reformed Episcopal Church understands the Christian life to be necessarily corporate. The Gospel call of salvation is not only to a Saviour, but also to a community of those who have been saved (I Cor. 12:27), which community, being indwelt by Christ's Spirit, transcends both temporal and geographic bounds.

    Therefore, the Reformed Episcopal Church is creedal, following the historic Christian faith as it was affirmed by the early undivided Church in the Apostles' (A.D. 150) and Nicene Creeds (A.D. 325), sacramental, practicing the divinely ordained sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper as outward and visible signs of His inward and spiritual grace, confessional, accepting the doctrines and practices of the English Reformation as found in the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, and episcopal, finding unity with the Church of the earliest Christian eras through submission to the government of godly bishops. In this fashion, by embracing the broad base of doctrine and practice inherent in the historic Church of the Reformation, the Reformed Episcopal Church has a foundation for effective ministry in the name of Christ to a world which is lost and dying without Him.

    I've placed the relevant quote in bold so that it can be clearly read and understood.

    I hope that this helps!

    In Christ,

    Dale
     
  20. Dale McNamee

    Dale McNamee
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dear John Gilmore,

    We,the REC,do follow the 39 Articles and here's the part from the REC Mission statement that affirms it. If you want to read the whole statement you can read my response to Trying 2 Understand.

    Therefore, the Reformed Episcopal Church is creedal, following the historic Christian faith as it was affirmed by the early undivided Church in the Apostles' (A.D. 150) and Nicene Creeds (A.D. 325), sacramental, practicing the divinely ordained sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper as outward and visible signs of His inward and spiritual grace, confessional, accepting the doctrines and practices of the English Reformation as found in the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, and episcopal, finding unity with the Church of the earliest Christian eras through submission to the government of godly bishops. In this fashion, by embracing the broad base of doctrine and practice inherent in the historic Church of the Reformation, the Reformed Episcopal Church has a foundation for effective ministry in the name of Christ to a world which is lost and dying without Him.

    By the way,the Book of Common Prayer does contain the 39 Articles and a catechism as well. So,when the comment regarding the prayer book was made, it was somewhat correct. ;)

    In Christ,

    Dale
     

Share This Page

Loading...