RED SKY AT NIGHT - Matthew 16:2–3

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,975
    Likes Received:
    129
    Weather Related Rhymes
    If March comes in like a lion, it will go out as a lamb;
    if it comes in like a lamb, it will go out as a lion.
    April showers bring May flowers.
    Every wind has its weather.
    No weather is ill, if the wind be still.

    Do you know any more?[b/]

    To celebrate the 400th anniversary of the KJV I’m examining some common English expressions that were popularized by the Authorized King James Version.
    This is next one is not an idiom but a rhyme, an adage about weather with biblical support.

    Red sky in the morning, sailors take warning;
    Red sky at night, sailors delight.

    ***********************

    An adage is a saying that states a general truth that has been shown to be true over time.[/i] [LINK]

    The scriptures make reference to the saying in Matthew 16:2-3 and in Luke 12:54-56.


    Matthew 16:2-3

    He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
    And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring.
    O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?”

    AV 1873

    He answered, and said vnto them, When it is euening, yee say, It will bee faire weather: for the skie is red.
    And in the morning, It will be foule weather to day: for the skie is red and lowring.
    O ye hypocrites, yee can discerne the face of the skie, but can ye not discerne the signes of the times?

    AV 1611

    He answered and sayde vnto the. At even ye saye we shall have fayre wedder and yt because ye skye is reed:
    and in the morninge ye saye to daye shalbe foule wedder and that because the skye is cloudy and reed.
    O ye ypocrites ye can discerne ye fassion of the skye: and can ye not discerne ye signes of the tymes?

    Tyndale 1526

    And he answeride, and seide to hem, Whanne the euentid is comun, ye seien, It schal be clere, for heuene is rodi;
    and the morewtid, To dai tempest, for heuene schyneth heueli.
    Wycliffe 1395

    A few issues come to mind.

    ISSUE 1. - IS THE STATEMENT TRUE?
    Does a red morning sky mean rain?

    One early meteorologist, Theophrastus (c. 371 – c. 287 BC) wrote a detailed treatise called De Signis that explained how to determine the weather signs.

    The Science Behind the Rhyme

    Contrary to our kindergarten crayon drawings, the sun isn’t yellow (nor does it smile). Ordinary sunlight is a rainbow of color, a spectrum ranging from violet and blue at one end to orange and red on the other.

    At sunrise or sunset, the sunlight takes a longer path through the atmosphere. Violet and blue light is scattered more than the oranges and red light so by the time the light reaches an observer the color looks reddened.
    “Some of the most beautiful sunrises and sunsets feature solid decks of middle or high clouds that cover the entire sky except for a narrow clear strip near the horizon. … In the middle latitudes, skies like these often are associated with a passing jet stream disturbance; i.e., they mark zones of transition between west-to-east moving regions of atmospheric ascent (cloud cover) and descent (clear skies). When viewed at sunrise, a sky of this type implies that the weather is likely to deteriorate as the mid- and upper-level moisture continues eastward. At sunset, of course, the opposite is true, hence the saying "Red sky at night, traveler's delight; Red sky in morning, traveler take warning."’
    [NOAA]**************************

    ISSUE #2. - INERRANCY
    The second question that comes to mind when I read these verses relate to biblical inerrancy. Is the statement wholly true? Does a red morning sky always mean rain? If not, how does this mold our understanding of what Jesus says?

    If it rains after a “red sun at night” is Scripture still inerrant?

    The inerrancy of Scripture means that the Bible always tells the truth about everything it talks about.
    Bernard Ramm clarifies what this means:
    Scriptures don’t necessarily say the adage was truthful, only that it was a known saying known to the Pharisees and Sadducees; although Jesus’ reproof, “You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky…, seems to imply that there was some truth to the statement.
    The precision of the statement made by Jesus only has to meet that demanded by his audience.

    ***********************


    ISSUE #3 - TEXT CRITICAL ISSUES
    Matthew 16:2-3 is one of those semi-controversial set of verses that are missing in a few key Greek manuscripts.


    Of this short passage in Matthew, Jerome (c. 347 – September 30, 420) writes:
    Despite his misgivings concerning the authenticity of the verses they were included in the Vulgate.

    Westcott and Hort’s Greek New Testament has the passage in double brackets (meaning they didn’t think it was genuine).

    Concerning these verses Bruce Metzger writes: “The external evidence for the absence of these words is impressive…”

    Then after a review of the data, he notes some uncertainty and concludes: “In view of the balance of these considerations it was thought best to retain the passage enclosed within square brackets.”
    A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Second Edition (1994) 33.

    The Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament and the United Bible Society’s ‘Critical Text’ enclose the passage in single brackets.

    Many modern translations follow this pattern by including the passage with a
    footnote…

    He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’
    and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’
    You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. (a)
    A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.

    (a) note: “Some early manuscripts do not have When evening comes … of the times.
    Matthew 16:2-4 New International Version (2010)

    NLT note: “Several manuscripts do not include any of the words in 16:2–3 after He replied.
    NAS95 note: “Early mss do not contain the rest of v 2 and v 3”
    ESV note: “Some manuscripts omit the following words to the end of verse 3”
    NRSV note: “Other ancient authorities lack 2When it is … of the time”

    …while others don’t.

    The NKJV handles it differently
    He answered and said to them, “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ *Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.
    *NU omits Hypocrites
    NKJV 1982
    [NU = Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (N) and in the United Bible Societies’ fourth edition (U)]
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,975
    Likes Received:
    129
    ISSUE #4 GOD IS SOVEREIGN

    God thundereth marvellously with his voice; Great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; Likewise to the small rain, And to the great rain of his strength. He sealeth up the hand of every man; That all men may know his work. Then the beasts go into dens, And remain in their places. Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: And cold out of the north. By the breath of God frost is given: And the breadth of the waters is straitened. Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: He scattereth his bright cloud: And it is turned round about by his counsels: That they may do whatsoever he commandeth them Upon the face of the world in the earth. He causeth it to come, whether for correction, Or for his land, or for mercy. Hearken unto this, O Job: Stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
    Job 37:5–14, AV 1873

    A very important point considering I'm snowed in today after almost 2 feet of snow last night.

    Rob
     
  3. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    3
    Once more the ruby-colour'd portall open'd,
    Which to his speech did honey passage yield;
    Like a red morn, that even yet betoken'd,
    Wreck to the seaman, tempest to the field,
    Sorrow to the shepherds, woe unto the birds,
    Gusts and foul flaws to herdman and to herds.
    --Shakespeare, Venus & Adonis (1593), Lines 451-456
     
    #3 franklinmonroe, Jan 30, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2011
  4. BobinKy

    BobinKy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sea-gull, sea-gull sit on the sand!
    It's never good weather when you're on the land.

    Trace the sky with painter's brush,
    The wind's around you will soon rush.

    Sound traveling far and wide,
    A stormy day will betide.​


    . . .


    Want something different,



    . . .


    And here are a few graphics.



    [​IMG]

    Red sky at morning . . .



    [​IMG]

    Wooly worms, they say, predict the winter -- the wider the black bands, the colder and snowier the coming winter will be.

    Wooly Worm Festival, Banner Elk, N.C



    [​IMG]

    Every home used to have an almanac for weather predictions, farming tips, and more.

    Need help in learning how to use an almanac, check out the following book.



    And some scripture for farming by the signs of the moon.

    14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
    15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
    16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
    17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
    18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
    19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. (Gen. 1:14-19; KJB)

    And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon (Deut. 33:14; KJB)​


    ...Bob
     
    #4 BobinKy, Jan 30, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2011
  5. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,975
    Likes Received:
    129
    I thought that was one of those verses that I've read but never really seen,

    turns out it was the version that was unfamiliar.

    The ESV reads:

    with the choicest fruits of the sun and the rich yield of the months,
    Deuteronomy 33:14 (ESV)

    The sun produces a yield but does the moon?

    Is this a case of culture driving translation?

    Rob
     
  6. BobinKy

    BobinKy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0


    Yes, the Moon produces a yield here on Earth. Below are a few links and images to consider.

    At Deut. 33:14, modern translations should follow the KJB and render yerach (G/K # 3732; Strongs 3391) as Moon, not month. These same modern translations render yerach as moon in Isa. 60:20.



    Moon Effects on Climate



    [​IMG]



    Moon Effects on Fishing



    [​IMG]



    Moon Effects on Hunting



    [​IMG]



    Moon Effects on Farming



    [​IMG]



    U. S. Navel Observatory Data Services -- Moon Schedules (and more)



    ...Bob
     
    #6 BobinKy, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2011
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,972
    Likes Received:
    97
    More RED SKY pics Bob!
     
  8. BobinKy

    BobinKy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    0

    How about these?



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    ...Bob
     
    #8 BobinKy, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2011
  9. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,184
    Likes Received:
    327
    When I lived in Maine there was a saying:

    "As the days grow longer, the winter grows stronger"

    December 21 being the shortest day of the year in terms of sunlight, but February is the coldest month in Maine even though the length of the hours of sunlight in February days are considerably longer than in December.

    HankD
     
    #9 HankD, Feb 9, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  10. Deacon

    Deacon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    6,975
    Likes Received:
    129
    He answered and said unto them,
    When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
    And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring.
    Matthew 16:2–3a, AV 1873



    Red sky at night, what a delight!
    Red sky in the morning, cloudy and storming.
    Matthew 16:2b-3a International Standard Version

    As things change they become more alike.
    The ISV brings back the poety of the original Greek and the AV

    Rob
     
    #10 Deacon, Apr 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2011

Share This Page

Loading...