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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Primitive Baptist, Feb 4, 2003.
TO THE CALVINISTS:
Were the elect redeemed at Calvary or are they redeemed when they believe?
I'm not a Calvinist but I can tell you how they would most likely answer this question:
The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world. The atonement for the elect is accomplished at the cross. The atonement or redeemption (as you put it) is applied at the time they believe in Christ, which can only occur after new birth. Some may word it differently but this is the basic line of thought. I hope that helps.
The elect are JUSTIFIED at the moment they believe.
Were the elect a part of the elect before they officially believed?
The elect were redeemed at Calvary in Christ. He justified all who have been (before the Cross and since) and ever will be saved. All sin was judged and condemned at that time. If it rested upon sinful man to believe this event would redeem none would believe; this is proven by so many who say they believe Christ died for them; but they must do something at the very least to obtain that believe and then doing that they must continue in order to retain it.
So was that a yes or a no?
I'm sorry. yes.
Did the elect justify themselves or did Jesus justify them?
The elect are justified in Jesus.
"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" Rom. 3.24-26
I didn't ask 'in' whom, I asked by whom. Was it something that the elect do or is it simply because of what Jesus did?
They are justified only because of what Jesus did.
I didn't ask 'in' whom, I asked by whom. Was it something that the elect do or is it simply because of what Jesus did? </font>[/QUOTE]God justifies those who have faith in Jesus, and this is only possible because of what Jesus did. I thought the quote from Romans answered this question quite nicely.
So the elect are justified by what they do?
scripture says: "Being justified freely by his grace..."
So it doesn't matter what we believe, it just has to do with who Jesus decided to give his grace to?
Is there a point to this game of removing context and feigning ignorance on every response?
I couldn't bring myself to ask. Thanks for your heroism.
Nope. The point is that unless you are an Universalist, you still believe that the elect must do something.
It is not ignorance. I am just not letting you get away with a different definition of doing nothing.
Do what ever you want to; that is fine with me. But in the matter of salvation/redemtion/justification you are too late.