Redemption

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Primitive Baptist, Feb 4, 2003.

  1. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    0
    TO THE CALVINISTS:

    Were the elect redeemed at Calvary or are they redeemed when they believe?
     
  2. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not a Calvinist but I can tell you how they would most likely answer this question:

    The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world. The atonement for the elect is accomplished at the cross. The atonement or redeemption (as you put it) is applied at the time they believe in Christ, which can only occur after new birth. Some may word it differently but this is the basic line of thought. I hope that helps.

    Bro. Bill
     
  3. Rev. G

    Rev. G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    The elect are JUSTIFIED at the moment they believe.
     
  4. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Were the elect a part of the elect before they officially believed?
     
  5. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    The elect were redeemed at Calvary in Christ. He justified all who have been (before the Cross and since) and ever will be saved. All sin was judged and condemned at that time. If it rested upon sinful man to believe this event would redeem none would believe; this is proven by so many who say they believe Christ died for them; but they must do something at the very least to obtain that believe and then doing that they must continue in order to retain it.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  6. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    So was that a yes or a no?
     
  7. Rev. G

    Rev. G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes.
     
  8. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sorry. yes.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did the elect justify themselves or did Jesus justify them?
     
  10. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    The elect are justified in Jesus.

    "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" Rom. 3.24-26

    Bro. Dallas
     
  11. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't ask 'in' whom, I asked by whom. Was it something that the elect do or is it simply because of what Jesus did?
     
  12. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    They are justified only because of what Jesus did.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  13. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't ask 'in' whom, I asked by whom. Was it something that the elect do or is it simply because of what Jesus did? </font>[/QUOTE]God justifies those who have faith in Jesus, and this is only possible because of what Jesus did. I thought the quote from Romans answered this question quite nicely.

     
  14. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    So the elect are justified by what they do?
     
  15. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    scripture says: "Being justified freely by his grace..."

    Bro. Dallas
     
  16. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    So it doesn't matter what we believe, it just has to do with who Jesus decided to give his grace to?
     
  17. npetreley

    npetreley
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is there a point to this game of removing context and feigning ignorance on every response?
     
  18. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    I couldn't bring myself to ask. Thanks for your heroism.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  19. Eladar

    Eladar
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nope. The point is that unless you are an Universalist, you still believe that the elect must do something.

    It is not ignorance. I am just not letting you get away with a different definition of doing nothing.
     
  20. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do what ever you want to; that is fine with me. But in the matter of salvation/redemtion/justification you are too late.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     

Share This Page

Loading...