Reformation Sunday

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    It was 494 years ago tomorrow that a great man of God took on the corrupted Roman Church.
    He knew the cost. Jan Hus was burned at the stake about 100 years earlier for less boldness against the morally crumbling religious entity.

    But the righteous are bold as a lion (Proverbs 28:1).

    The hammer that nailed those 95 theses to the Catholic Church door in Wittenburg still rings out its toll of revival.

    Luther did not bring anything new to bear in his day. No. Luther was a revivalist. Revivals have nothing to do with new things. Revivals are about restoration to the great old things. Luther was an Augustinian monk. He would bring the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ back to those early days when she was great; those days when she conquered the world- not with physical swords, but with the Sword of the Spirit. It was during those glory days when we'd not long cracked the complex and glorious doctrine of the Trinity. It was during those great days when we settled the Canon. It was during those days that perhaps the greatest theologian God ever gave the church, Augustine, withstood the heresy of Pelagius and expounded unto us the way of grace more perfectly. It was during those days that the Roman pagan gods bowed at the feet of Jesus and declared him Lord. It was during those days when missionary efforts would traverse the known world.

    Luther, by God's mighty power, steered this Old Ship back to her earlier moorings and away from her new corruptions. Corruptions like indulgences- something relatively new in Luther's day.

    Oh, how we need in our religious culture another mighty reformation- or perhaps a fresh jolt in that great protestant reformation that has lagged and lost ground here!

    We need a reformation of humility- true humility. Not the humility that makes one well liked- that is the opposite of humility most of the time. Humility is a willingness to be bold and confrontational though it may draw great hatred and criticism. Humility is not sweetness that you know will make you well liked. That's conceit. Humility is not caring about how much you will be hated- caring only about God and His Truth- and being willing to be ostracized for standing firmly for it. That's humility. That's what Luther was.
    Also, we need humility in the way we approach the sacred Word of God. Not this new, damnable, arrogant, God-speaks-to-me-and-I-need-no-help way of approaching the Scripture. But one that realizes you will be judged severely for how you handle the Word of God, so you'd better be right and you'd better seek all the help you can to make sure you're right, and your conclusions had better be supported by the Body of Christ which spans the ages.

    We need a reformation of reverence. God is not your buddy. God does not exist for you- you exist for God. God made yo not for you- god made you for his own glory. You DON'T talk to him like you would your best buddy. He is God. You don't approach him casually. You don't worship him lightly. he is not a geni who grants your wishes. He is a King who rules and reigns and is building a Kingdom that will take this world for the glory of Christ.

    He built this universe for and by Christ. It is a Christocentric universe. It is not about man. Man is a means to an end- albeit a glorious end- the GREATEST of all ends- the glory of God. To believe other than that is to be invincibly arrogant.

    The Bible is a Christocentric book. If you think it is about you you will never understand the simplest of its teachings.

    We need a reformation of wisdom. Shallowness, hypersimplicity and ignorance, and the love of such evil things, is at the root of every damnable heresy among us today. We need to hunger for the deep things of God once again. Many of our songs are shallow and theologically unsound. Many of our sermons have nothing to do with Scripture rightly divided. We are supposed to be teaching one another and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs. We are supposed to be giving MEAT not just milk. We are supposed to love the Lord our God with all of our MINDS as well as our hearts and souls and strength. Anti-intellectualism is absolute wickedness. To despise good seminaries is to evidence that you have a very dark and confused heart.

    To long for and love wisdom and the knowledge of God is to love God.

    God and Gracious, Loving Father, please send a reformation to our religious culture- one of humility, reverence and wisdom.

    In Christ's Name and for His sake and glory- AMEN.
     
  2. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    If "send a reformation" means you want me to accept DoG, then NO THANKS, I'll stick with the truth of the Gospel

    John
     
    #2 seekingthetruth, Oct 30, 2011
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  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    So Calvinists don't have the Gospel???

    Is that what you are saying???

    We are not even saved then, right?

    Wow.

    Not even the most blatant intelligent Arminian would say something like this.

    You people are a shame to your own ranks- whatever those are.
     
  4. seekingthetruth

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    I am not Arminian for one.

    And if you deny that the Gospel was given for every living soul, then you are not teaching the truth of the Gospel.

    I am not saying you are not saved, but I am saying that your selfish gospel that you preach is crippling to the spreading of the gospel, and denying the oppurtunity for many to be saved.

    John
     
    #4 seekingthetruth, Oct 30, 2011
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  5. preachinjesus

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    I for one am thankful for the great event that took place in October of 1517. The reclamation of the true Church from the bondage of the corrupt Church has meant renewed vigor for the true Gospel.

    Though we might disagree over some relatively minor points of theology, what we hold in common is far greater than what divides us.
     
  6. quantumfaith

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  7. kyredneck

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    We ALL need to be ernestly praying for revival; let the LORD decide what it will be.
     
  8. kyredneck

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    Excellent read Luke, you write very well, and I totally agree with you. Thanks.
     
  9. Herald

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    Nearly every Protestant church in existence today owes a debt to the Reformation. The first Reformers were almost exclusively believers in the DoG. As the footprint of the Reformation grew, so did diverse theological convictions such as Arminianism. Some of those diverse convictions remained under the blanket of orthodoxy; while still others, such as the Anabaptists, adopted radical and dangerous views that threatened the welfare of the church. As we look back at the events of nearly 500 years ago, we see God's faithfulness in preserving His church. That is the story of the Reformation. Calvinists and Arminians alike share a common heritage.
     
  10. Grasshopper

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    Any proof? I belong to a SBC Church. Most churches in our denomination are not Calvinistic. Yet these same churches who take your attitude toward Calvinists can't raise enough money to send out enough missionaries to fit the needs. There are people waiting in line to go to the mission field but the IMB doesn't have the money to fund them. So what is crippling, Calvinists or non Cals who speak one way on a message board and an opposite way when it comes to the check book.


    How is Calvinist denying the opportunity for many to be saved?

    Sadly this is a good example of the typical anti-Calvinist.
     
  11. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow
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    I like Halloween better; it's less scary.:tongue3:
     
  12. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    You owe a debt of gratitude to Martin Luther.

    This nation would not exist were it not for the Protestant Reformation. The Pilgrims came here SIMPLY BECAUSE they were Protestants seeking refuge from the, also Protestant but corrupt, Church of England.

    After the Pilgrims, Puritans by the multiplies thousands flooded these sacred shores and tamed this wild land.

    When we sought independence via the American Revolutionary War, King George, who was no idiot and who knew well the demographics of the thirteen colonies called the war, "The Presbyterian Revolt."

    You are free today because God raised up Luther and blessed the Protestant Reformation.

    You don't have to be a Calvinist to appreciate the Protestant Reformation.

    Methodists, for example, are Protestants and they are certainly not Calvinists.

    No, you don't have to be a Calvinist to appreciate the Protestant reformation. You just have to be a decent human being who has enough character not to spit on his forefathers who handed him with bloody hands everything he has.

    God raised up these men and women. They were not perfect by any means. But they were by and large brave, self sacrificing heroes of the faith who through pain of loss and death broke forever the shackles of Romanism for the whole Western world and gave us the religious freedom we enjoy today. There would be no baptistboard without them. There would be no United States without them. You ought to thank God for them.
     
    #12 Luke2427, Oct 31, 2011
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  13. seekingthetruth

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    Missions?

    How much of your dollar that you give in the SBC church is eaten up by the administration of the mission board?

    The church i go to is independent. We have no problem finding missionaries to support, AND every penney of every dollar i give gets to them, not a mission board!

    If I was lost and I heard the message of Calvinism, I would be very discouraged and very intimidated about even approaching Christianity if I was told it it is a special group that God chooses a very few to invite.

    John
     
    #13 seekingthetruth, Oct 31, 2011
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  14. seekingthetruth

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    BTW, I am not ashamed to be anti-Calvinist. I believe it is right and biblical to oppose unbiblical doctrines.

    John
     
  15. seekingthetruth

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    I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian.

    I am also not protestant.

    I am Baptist, with a church heritage that is proven to date back to the second century, and believed to date back to the New Testament Church in Acts.

    I do agree with the historical significance of breaking free of the RCC, and and how that led to the settling of our country. But none of that justifies a false doctrine.

    Jesus is the author of my doctrine, not Luther or Calvin.

    John
     
  16. preacher4truth

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    So you're intimidated by the Sovereign God of the Scriptures doing all things according to His purpose?

    Paul believed this special group was out there. He talked about it. They are scattered out in this world, we preach, and only His elect are saved, and none other.

    I marvel at non-cals as yourself who bicker about "how do we know who is elect and who isn't?" Guess what, you're not supposed to know, you're supposed to preach.

    By the way, "predestined" means "to limit in advance" and that is exactly what God did in calling and saving only His elect.

    God doesn't do things your way, in other words this isn't "Burger King Theology," so no, you can't "have it your way." He does things His way only, and in the midst of His Sovereign regin in choosing, electing, thwarting mans plans, using all things for His Glory, choosing whom He wills to choose prior to said person every doing anything, His sheep simply trust in Him in it, and glorify Him for it.

    God's bigger than your logic and your reason against these revealed truths within Scriptures which you fight against. Those who embrace these truths bask in His Glory in them and trust Him totally. Either He is God, or He is not.

    Also, I used to as you, question these truths. After agonizing with them, and God in them, and not looking at Calvin, not even at the time knowing Spurgeon was Calvinist or not, not even knowing MaCarthur to be reformed, and listening to none of these for pointers. Instead, I found these truths in the Word of God alone and one day accepted these marvelous truths of who God is and of what He does. Now I stand in awe of Him and His workings and desire to know more of Him.

    Note Moses experience with God in Exodus 33, after seeing His Sovereign ways revealed, doing how He wills with whom He wills to do so, yet he wanted to know more about God.

    He knows what He's doing. Your logic, and unfavorable opinion about these truths make no difference whatsoever, nor do they effect all He has planned to do.
     
  17. Herald

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    John,

    Good morning.

    I was not aware that you were a Landmark Baptist. I'll leave your view without a response on my part; not because it is not a worthwhile topic to discuss, but because I've found it to be an emotionally charged topic that is best left for another venue. I consider the discussion of theology and Scripture to be a much higher priority.

    I am glad to hear that Luther and Calvin are not the authors of your doctrine. God forbid that any Christian should look to another man as the author of infallible truth. Luther was used by God to initiate a break with Romanism. For that I am grateful. Augustine, and later Calvin, were fallible men who eloquently explained difficult teachings. The same can be said for faithful ministers, scholars, and theologians throughout the centuries. Each man's teachings are to be examined in light of Scripture. If those teachings are faithful to Scripture, then they can be used to strengthen the church. Isn't that was a preacher does? He examines Scripture and prepares message. If that message passes scrutiny it is of value to the hearer.

    By the way, Calvin never used the term "Calvinism." Calvinism was first a pejorative term, much like the term Christian in the first century. Calvin was the author of the DoG. Some point back to Augustine, claiming he was the first apologist for the DoG. But even if that were so, Augustine did not create the teaching. Yet, we see their names used to describe a method of theological thought; Calvinism and Augustianism. Is it then fair to accuse those who hold to the DoG that they are following men rather than God? No. It is not fair. It is intellectually dishonest to do so. When Charles Spurgeon called himself a Calvinist, he was not casting his lot with everything Calvin taught. Calvin believed in infant baptism. Calvin was also a theonomist. Spurgeon disagreed vehemently with both of those positions. How then could Calvin be the author of Spurgeon's doctrine? Obviously, he wasn't. But Spurgeon gladly wore the label "Calvinist" because John Calvin so eloquently wrote on the DoG. To carry the argument further than that is create a straw man argument.

    John, in regards to my comment about Arminianism; the belief that man has a free will, independent from any influence by God, in salvation is consistent with Arminian theology. Unlike the misplaced criticism against those who believe in the DoG; if I use the term Arminian, I am not supposing that an individual believes all that Jacobus Ariminus believed and taught. But, to the degree that they concur with his view on free will, they would be in agreement with him, whether they choose to wear the title of "Arminian" or not.
     
    #17 Herald, Oct 31, 2011
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  18. Martin Marprelate

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    Thanks for reminding us of Reformation day, Luke.
    I think it's rather sad that we can't remember such an important day without bickering. Whatever sort of Baptist you are, you are a child of the Reformation, whether you admit it or not.

    In 6 years time, it will be the 500th anniversary of Luther's 95 theses. We should be planning a big celebration and some good books on the subject. Most people in Britain think the Reformation was all about Henry VIII and his divorce.

    Steve
     
  19. seekingthetruth

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    I believe in eternal security, so I cannot be labeled Arminian.

    In all honesty, the theology of myself and my church would fit closer to Calvinism than Arminianism except for a couple of HUGE points.

    John
     
  20. seekingthetruth

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    Also Herald

    We are not Landmark Baptists. We do believe that our heritage goes back to the New Testament church, but we do recognise the universal church (body of believers). And our communion is open to all believers, not just our local members. And we do accept believer's baptism from other denominations if it is admistered scriptually.

    John
     

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