Featured Reformed and Southern Baptists

that would be interesting, to be able to blend dispy theology with calvinistic Sotierology!

Know someone like Dr McArthur has, but many calvinists look at him as being a quasi cal die to holding still dispy views also!

 

They are a local church...to their own master they stand or fall.God will do any such correction, or rejection as he see's fit.I only offer an opinion.

 

sag38

No one who is biblically stable would do this.Those who understand God's grace know that God alone can enable someone to grasp it fully.there is no "forcing of anything"....

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Were you in this church?
Do you know firsthand exactly what happened?

If you do not...be careful not to be a talebearer...passing on second hand info as if it is factual.

If you were there could you explain your version of what took place?

 

Yeshua1

If we take your statement and re-word it slightly...".the ones who would make TRUTH a big enough issue to divide over"....it comes out a bit different. that would make them be the ones who are being faithful to God and His truth.

let me ask some questions for clarification;

Do we invent truth or has God declared it?
Do we dictate to God what is truth, or does He reveal it to who he will?
Has God given instruction on these matters?

Most believers are found here ,at least on several issues.Go with what you know,until God shows you a better way.
Everyone makes a stand and will be judged on that stand. Faithful unto death, or enemies of the cross of Christ...

people are learning and growing at different rates and maturity.Everyone can be patient with new believers and those who are sincerely questioning all manner of things.

Those who are openly hostile are to be resisted ....

..

We are to be patient and yet not naive.We are to even love our enemies.Yet that love must be in the truth.

.

Or would perhaps make such a person naive and ungrounded in basic doctrinal foundations,like children tossed to and fro;
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

:thumbs::wavey:

 

Iconoclast, let me express my appreciation for your counsel in post #82. You are a wise man and I value your opinions.

My comments about my church and its position on Calvinism sought to reflect the situation as it is, not as i would like it to be.

I would very much welcome a civil discussion of the issue among our people. But the division of 25 years ago was pretty traumatic, and the thought of risking the unity which we have now scares the daylights out of me.

Rightly or wrongly, that fear drives my reluctance to get involved in a DoG fight.

 

Tom Butler

Thank you. I think I am just an old man:thumbsup:and have been around awhile to see many situations unfold. I am a bad auto mechanic[I snap spark plugs off} but i have driven so many bad cars i have come to know by experience when things are not going well,lol

Tom....I am sure of that. What should be a positive time in the life of the church is surrounded by these issues.

You are in a tough spot in several ways.I think you are very wise to avoid any conduct that would cause a split. Loving the brethren trumps any doctrinal differences for sure.
I love doctrine as it is God given. Even if we are confident that we have truth....great care must be used in a local church situation in that you have established friendships,and served with many in the assembly already.

Years ago several of us were in a Conservative Baptist church.The Pastor was a godly man. Several of us were relatively young believers who were serving and teaching at that time. The pastor sought to walk a fine line and not offend people.
He told us that that he even believed many of the things we did, but was reluctant to preach these things for he felt that many were not equipped to handle these things.
It was getting very difficult for us to remain there in that on the way home from service my wife and I would discuss the message and i would have to be correcting the omissions week by week.
I met privately with the pastor, then a group of us met with Him and some of the deacons. They {deacons} could not grasp what we were speaking about.
That year we went to a family conference down in Virginia.
A international known pastor was one of the 5 speakers there that week.
My friend and I approached him for advise on how to handle what was going on.
He stressed .......do nothing to undermine the pastor, or harm the saints there .he opened up 1 cor 3 to us:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

We were pretty stunned,lol. He then said...in public do nothing to harm these saints.....in private if they ask us at a bible study,or visiting...he said we are free to express our beliefs in full and open up the scriptures.

He said if we make a godly appeal to the leadership and it was not welcome, then we needed to pray if that was the place that we should be.

then i read a Spurgeon sermon about a week or two later in God's providence....on 1 tim 5

NO. 3055
A SERMON PUBLISHED ON THURSDAY, AUGUST 29TH, 1907
DELIVERED BY C. H. SPURGEON,
AT THE METROPOLITAN TABERNACLE, NEWINGTON,
ON LORD’S-DAY EVENING, MARCH 30TH, 1873.
“Neither be partaker of other men’s sins.” — 1 Timothy 5:22

here is some of what he offered:

more in part two-

 

keep in prayer and positive put it before the lord as I am sure you have. here is more from that sermon:

this last part spoke to my situation at that time. We did not have the spiritual maturity to remain there as we were in fear of causing a split on one hand, but we were seeing that the pastors compromise was not helping anyone either...we began to pray, there was a group of us...four couples with our children.
we did not want to leave , but we could not stay at that time....we were too fired up and seeing the doctrinal indifference of so many of the members was more than we could handle at that time.

You are more mature now then we were then. I will keep it in prayer for you men and pray that God will work by His Spirit to help some of the members see more clearly what they are missing out on.

On the other hand:
As you remain there you in loving the saints are also to build them up,and seek to edify them.
These truths are meant to be a blessing, not a cause for a "fight'. You have your work cut-out for you alright....

 

May I add that some people are providentially hindered from attending another church.

 

Yes...good point.Sometimes we are providentially in a place to be used of God.
It is not like there are solid churches all over the place.

When we left the church for awhile we travelled 1.5 hours to go to a church we know was sound,until the Lord provided for us.

Tom and these men have seen many changes and I think are acting very wisely at this time.it is not where they are new to the area,and searching for a new work.....this has been a long process and many relationships are involved.

It will be interesting to see how the Lord works in that place,going forward.:thumbs:

 

I am in complete agreement with this. During those years, I was still a Presbyterian, but did sit through a few of the business meetings, as I would go with Donna when I was dating her. That was enough for me, and never want to see it repeated. I certainly do not want to be any part of causing the demise of the church.

The best course of action is to use DoGs in our SS lessons and sermons. As the older generation leaves us and is replaced by younger folks, the bylaws and Constitution will change with it.

I do not envy the task of the Search Committee. It is five members of our church I have complete confidence in.

The issue that causes a division like the previous one really does not matter. If we repeated the actions of the mid to late 70s, we could cease to exist in short order.

 

SN,

You men are seasoned saints and seem to have a good handle on it.Show the love of Christ to the brethren as you have been doing.
God is in control and can and will intervene in answer to prayer.
perhaps God already has been at work in the "new Pastor" and he might not even be aware of what is in store for him.
Stick to the godly design for eldership in 1 tim and Titus,and God will send the right man if all is well there.

 

Now don't tell me that SS isn't an indoctrination process.... You guys just admitted you do it & your reward is Iconoclasts gushing endorsement & a slap on the back.

If I was a hard core Arminian, Id be pissed right now but since I'm not & I slanted toward Calvinists, sounds like a spot on long range game plan to seed yourselves.....good show old man!:thumbs::laugh:

 

and if a frog had wings, he would not bump his butt.................

Hey, here is an idea, Barnum and Baileys Circus is hiring someone to circumcise elephants. The pay is bad but the tips are big.

 

I think that is a fine idea. If the church identifies itself as being "non-reformed" in nature, so long as the "nature" of class is clearly defined for its members. Never should anyone try to do things "under the radar". If the pastor suggests that it should not be done, then abide that as well.

 

You must have the position then to be so well informed.:laugh:

But now if you make wallets with them there are other bonuses ...think about it. :laugh: