Refreshing Day For Healthcare

Discussion in 'Politics' started by LeBuick, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. LeBuick

    LeBuick
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    Today I woke to a whole new ball game in this health care debate. No talks of death panels, pulling the plug on grandma or the government coming to your house with a lethal cocktail. The GOP is fighting back with facts... :thumbsup:

    Now I hope they stop criticizing what the democrats are trying to do and belly up to the table and represent the other side of the equation. We do need a bipartisan bill but it won't be bipartisan if they refuse to negotiate.

    Here are some legitimate points I heard today...

    How can private insurers compete with a public option.

    The president said we need to fight with facts yet he continues to say, "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor etc..."

    I sure hope the discussion here turns to facts like it has in the media.
     
  2. OldRegular

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    Something democrats cannot do, fight with facts that is, therefore, the increasing opposition to the socialist takeover of medical care.

    They will not stop criticizing the attempt to socialize 16% of the economy. Actually with the exception of one Senate committee Republicans have been frozen out of discussions on medical care reform. Obama reportedly told them "we won you sit down and shut up".

    They can't!

    Obama is a pathological liar!

    The only media reporting the facts is Fox News.
     
  3. Robert Snow

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    I hope we see real health care reform, with or without republican support.
     
  4. LeBuick

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    I somehow thought the change in tone taking place in the nation had bled over to the evangelicals. I thought they decided to stop the name calling, tell the truth and deal with facts. I don't know if you are an evangelical or not but I guess I was wrong about you.

    Both sides have been misleading and twisting the truth so blaming one side or the other is pointless.

    Here we go, more name calling and no facts. No one froze anyone out of anything, the right refuses to participate in any discussion that contains a public option.

    Bipartisanship doesn't mean we have to do it your way just to get your vote, it says you can come to the table and we will listen to your idea's. Majority still rules.

    I thought we went to grown folks discussion.

    I guess this is a matter of where you stand on the issues. Fox absolutely has it's marching orders from the insurance industry and is doing a great job keeping the pot of democracy stirred but I don't know if I would call that facts.

    Fox defended the death panel comment which has now been completely debunked. You got Beck and Hannity calling Obama a racist because of one comment. They are encouraging the disruption of civil debate with behavior that is unproductive toward a solution.

    I was surprised you could get Fox and facts in the same sentence but you managed to do it. Now tell me, how productive was that statement?
     
  5. LeBuick

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    Well, the whole game just changed today. The GOP was giving the Dems a free license to force through anything they wanted with all their outrageous scare tactics and lies. The truth was taking victory over the evil lies just as the Bible teaches it will.

    Now we are down to an idealogical discussion which complicates things for the democrats since the GOP has the best card by saying, "increase the size of government" and "how will they pay for it". This brings in that poll where most American's say they are conservative. It will be interesting to see how the democrats respond but so far they have no rebuttal.
     
  6. OldRegular

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    There has been no change in tone. The rabid left like Pelosi and Durbin are still calling those who attend the town hall meetings unAmerican. Dingel has compared them to the KKK. The only thing that has changed is the stacked meetings [ACORN and the unions] for Obama!


    Face the facts for once in your life LB. Obama is a Marxist. Those who provided the money to put him in office are Marxist. He is attempting to socialize medical care in this country. That will result in rationing and someone will have to determine who will be allowed to die. Governor Sarah Palin rightly named them death panels.

    To the democrats bipartisianship is when Republicans vote like democrats. So you see democrats don’t know the meaning of bipartisianship. Anyhow I don’t want bipartisanship if it means a socialist country.

    The truth is the truth. Just look as his record. It is meager enough that 15 minutes might be sufficient. Incidentally Obama voted against ever Republican bill to reform health care on the rare occasions he showed up and voted at his old job. This guy is less than an empty suit.

    So where do the other news media; CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC get their marching orders? Those Marxists who put Obama in office.

    It has not been debunked. In fact if you can read you will see that the bill is wide open for the establishment of a death panel. In fact once rationing is implemented a death panel would be mandatory.

    Obama is a racist! I suppose the question would be who does he hate the most; blacks or whites, or just plain old Christians?

    Some of us are just more perceptive than others LB. I suppose you will argue that the House bill forbids the taxpayer funding of Abortions. But then you support the most rabid [I started to say ardent but that is insufficient.] abortionist in the country; worse than Barbara Boxer if possible.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    You want to see change start with your won intellectual honesty. There was no mention of civil debate or any type pf respect for leaders while Bush was in office. So the hypocrisy abounds and bears no credibility.

    Nothing was said when Shrillary screeched from the top of her voice that she was going to dissent and disagree with the Bush admin. No mention of civil debate when code pink does their thing. The fact is Obama is pure evil, racist, lover of slaughtering unborn children. And it needs to be shouted from the roof tops.

    He wants a single payer system and this is the first step in that direction. He values life only so long as it is seen as beneficial to the greater good of all. That is pure evil and so are those that support him.
     
  8. SBCPreacher

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    As soon as Congress says that they'll be covered under the same program that they want everyone else covered, then I'll start to listen to what they say. But, I don't plan to hold my breath until that happens.
     
  9. LeBuick

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    Correction, they called the people who disrupt civil discourse and pretend they have the only voice that deserves to be heard unamerican. They call those who stand out front with swastika's, painting the president like a minstrel man unamerican. The call those who can only call other people names unamerican. No one said anything about somebody just attending a town hall meeting.

    This is an example of the unamerican spirit being shown across the land. Why don't we act like adults and debate the issues instead of resorting to name calling. American's have always confronted their problems and not stood on the sidelines calling those trying names.

    So by your admission the only bipartisan bill you would accept is if the Democrats vote like a Republican. This is the problem with DC and why there will probably be no bipartisan health care bill. The problem the GOP doesn't seem to get through their heads, like the president said, most of this was decided in the last election when the Democrats won a super majority.

    I was not aware of this but it probably wasn't reform. The only legislation I recall the GOP passing was trying to privatize Medicaid which badly screwed it up.

    There is no other station as biased or one sided as Fox. The other stations show both sides of the discussion. One is example is all the town hall protesters. They received a lot of face time on the other stations.

    Dude, even the Republican's are distancing themselves from that statement. Every fact check in town said it was false.

    Good luck with that argument... :thumbs:

    As far as I know, abortion is not mentioned in any of the proposals.

    Federally funded abortions are barred by the Hyde Amendment. There is no provision in any of the proposals I am aware of that undoes this Amendment. This makes abortion a non-issue in this discussion since they would have to specifically override the Hyde Amendment to federally fund abortion.

    If and when I see something to that effect hit one of the proposals, I will join you and demanding it be removed. Until then, no news is good news.
     
  10. LeBuick

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    This too is a invalid argument.

    No one is forcing anybody to take the public option. The public option will be one of many plans in the exchange, you can chose any plan you think works best for your situation. IF YOU DON'T WANT THE PUBLIC OPTION, DON'T PICK IT! It really is that simple.

    Congress has a similar exchange. They have many plans and the chose the one that works best for them. So your argument would really be putting the public option as one of the options in their exchange. I see no problem with that but I don't know what good it will do.

    Now if I had my way, all of the poor and those not able to finance their own health care so the tax payers must subsidize the cost would be put into the public option. This would be cheaper on the tax payers. However, like most of us, I don't get my way either.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    LB

    You are under the spell of the wicked witch, or is it warlock, Obama and you parrot whatever the party line is. It is not productive of my time to respond to the half truths and untruths in the above post #9.
     
  12. LeBuick

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    Nah, just hoping to have good discussion of the facts instead of name calling because our ideological views are different... :laugh::thumbsup:
     
  13. OldRegular

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    For which I thank God! In my opinion the only thing worse than Marxism is hell, the lake of fire!
     
  14. SeekingTruth

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    Now that's a statement that I can agree with.:thumbs::wavey:
     
  15. targus

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    Will you please provide an example of the Democrats misleading and twisting the truth?
     
  16. targus

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    Obama wants to repeal the Hyde Amendment.

    "Obama does not support the Hyde amendment. He believes that the federal government should not use its dollars to intrude on a poor woman's decision whether to carry to term or to terminate her pregnancy and selectively withhold benefits because she seeks to exercise her right of reproductive choice in a manner the government disfavors."

    http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2007/12/21/sen-barack-obamas-reproductive-health-questionnaire

    The plan is to not mention abortion in the health care bill - intentionally - and then repeal the Hyde Amendment.

    Abortions on demand will then be paid for with our tax dollars under the guise of "health care".
     
  17. LeBuick

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    Sure, no one, even the president can guarantee you can keep your current plan or your doctor. That is misleading. However, even with no reform no one can guarantee your company won't change insurers tomorrow which may mean a change of doctor and plans. So that statement he keeps making, even though I know what he's trying to say, is misleading in its stated form. It would be more truthful to say this plan will not cause you to etc...

    Obama is also lying by saying he has never been in favor of a single payer system. He clearly was in 2003 though he may not be now. But I guess it's another "I was for it before I was against it".
     
  18. Revmitchell

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    Does the House healthcare bill directly fund abortion with taxpayer money? Depends on whom you ask.

    Abortion-rights groups like Planned Parenthood call the claim a "myth" that's part of a broader "right-wing campaign against healthcare reform."

    But abortion-rights foes say such groups are being disingenuous and that the bill clearly authorizes federally financed abortion as part of its public healthcare option.

    Even with the House adjourned for August recess, the disagreement over whether its healthcare bill funds abortion with federal dollars is growing more intense. Last night, Family Research Council Action President Tony Perkins reissued an earlier invitation to Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards to debate the question. Perkins insists that Obama's healthcare reform plan includes taxpayer-financed abortion.

    The question revolves largely around an amendment to the House healthcare bill that was adopted by the Energy and Commerce Committee last Thursday. The amendment prohibits federal funds from explicitly subsidizing abortion in the private healthcare plans to be offered through the health insurance exchange (read it here). But it doesn't prevent "the public health insurance option from providing for or prohibiting coverage" of abortion.

    That means the public healthcare option could cover abortions that the government is currently barred from funding by way of the Hyde amendment, a rider to the annual health and human services appropriations bill that keeps Medicaid from funding abortion except in rare circumstances. But Democrats say the entire healthcare bill is subject to the Hyde amendment, meaning that public funds are still barred from covering abortions, so long as the amendment continues to be reauthorized annually.


    More Here
     
  19. LeBuick

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    I can't vouch for the facts being unbiased on a site named "Reproductive Health" but I do see you had to add some sort of conspiracy theory to make your point. I don't see him as having the political muscle to repeal the Hyde Amendment since there are pro-life democrats and he can't use reconciliation. The blue dogs to name a few. He would never get that to fly with the current congress.
     
  20. LeBuick

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    What you're saying is right but the implication is wrong.

    I was not aware someone specifically mentioned abortion in one of the proposals but here is what it's saying, tax dollars can't be used for abortions. However, you are correct that it doesn't bar the public option or one of the private plans in the exchange from providing that service via premiums or other private monies it collects.

    It is no different from today, planned parenthood can't use tax dollars for abortions but it is free to use other money it collects in that fashion. Now I know that is deceptive since it means use tax dollars for all other expenses so you can save private donation to fund abortions but the crime is here. Abortions are legal in this country so we have some victory that tax dollars can't be used. I agree that's not good enough but I believe the fix to the problem is passing legislation making abortion illegal and the entire problem will be fixed.

    This in my view is where we were let down when we gave the Republican's the majority. They told us they were against abortion yet the best we have is the Hyde Amendment from back in the 70's.

    So the answer is it doesn't fund them with tax dollars.
     

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