Refugees and Illegals .... when will we say. "No mas!"?

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by righteousdude2, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    138
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/10/politics/u-s-take-10000-syrian-refugees/

    Maybe one of my liberal counterparts can tell me just where will these refugees and illegals find work in a nation that has nearly 50% of its work eligible folks on welfare? There are only so many jobs, and with a growing number of illegal persons and refugees pouring into our cities, please explain just who will get jobs that are already at a PREMIUM?

    And if these folks can:'t find jobs, with benefits, please tell me how a nation with nearly 19 trillion dollars of growing debt can afford to house, feed and medically care for these people?

    I've looked at the numbers. Done the math. And the numbers just don't add up to being conducive to our overall good. In fact the numbers seem to be nudging us closer and closer to being another Greece.

    So if any of you liberal geniuses have a factual answer, please share. It is one thing to feel good about doing the good thing for our fellow humans .... but, if doing good drives you deeper into debt, how can that serve the overall good of not only the refugees and illegals, BUT YOUR OWN CITIZENS?

    No wonder we are seeing a rise in crime ... people are sensing the end of America as they know it, and their moral and financial trepidation is driving them to panic and frustration that leads them to do crazy things.

    Even so, come Lord Jesus .... Selah!

    http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ere-more-welfare-recipients-us-full-time-wor/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    189
    I am not a "liberal counterpart," but I am a person of compassion and Christian calling. Will that do?

    Even if that figure is accurate, the issue of a high number of people on "welfare" is not an issue of lack of jobs. But that figure is not accurate according to your own link.


    The amount of debt we have accrued has a lot to do with very poor and self-indulgent decisions we have made as a nation, not from helping refugees.

    The United States has a very long history of denying refugees entry into the country that are politically undesirable. We prevented a large number of Jews from fleeing the Holocaust into the United States - many of them died, we refused entry into the United States for most "Eastern Europeans" and Russians who sought asylum - and many of them died when they were forced to return to Communist countries.

    So what is your solution? Drive them back into Syria and let them die?

    Yes, loving your neighbor sometimes strains the budget. How much is a life worth?

    So the choice - as YOU have posed it - is doing a good thing for others (loving your neighbor) or maintaining a certain standard of living.

    How can a Christian make any choice other than loving one's neighbor?

    No. People commit crimes because they are evil. Society doesn't make them do it. (Isn't blaming society a "liberal" tactic?)

    With the attitude you have expressed here, are you sure you want him to come?

    “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on His right and the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    For I was hungry
    and you gave Me something to eat;
    I was thirsty
    and you gave Me something to drink;
    I was a stranger and you took Me in;
    I was naked and you clothed Me;
    I was sick and you took care of Me;
    I was in prison and you visited Me.’

    “Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or without clothes and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and visit You?’

    “And the King will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ Then He will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

    For I was hungry
    and you gave Me nothing to eat;
    I was thirsty
    and you gave Me nothing to drink;
    I was a stranger
    and you didn’t take Me in;
    I was naked
    and you didn’t clothe Me,
    sick and in prison
    and you didn’t take care of Me.’
    “Then they too will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or without clothes, or sick, or in prison, and not help You?’

    “Then He will answer them, ‘I assure you: Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me either.’

    “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


    Matthew 25:31-46
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Peter Sutherland (shown), the United Nations special representative of the secretary-general for international migration, is hopping from one pulpit to the next, preaching the message that the refugee tsunami proves national sovereignty is an “illusion,” a mere shibboleth” that must be done away with. Moreover, says Sutherland, the United States and the European Union “have not merely a moral but a legal obligation to protect refugees.” And that means, he makes quite clear, that the United States and EU are obligated to take in an unspecified quota — but potentially millions — of refugees and migrants, most of whom are currently streaming out of the Muslim countries of the war-decimated Middle East and Africa.

    In an October 8 interview with UN News Centre, Sutherland responded to the question, “What is your message to governments?” with this reply: “I will ask the governments to cooperate, to recognise that sovereignty is an illusion — that sovereignty is an absolute illusion that has to be put behind us. The days of hiding behind borders and fences are long gone. We have to work together and cooperate together to make a better world. And that means taking on some of the old shibboleths, taking on some of the old historic memories and images of our own country and recognising that we’re part of humankind.”


    Earlier in the interview Sutherland established his compassion credentials, stating:

    Continue . . . http://www.thenewamerican.com/world...ust-take-more-refugees-get-rid-of-sovereignty

    Maybe the solution to the refugee problem is to stop creating the conditions that creates the refugees.

    We could love our neighbors by not over throwing their governments and destabilizing their countries by playing one side against another. Radical idea huh?
     
    #3 poncho, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  4. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220

    Greed and selfishness. Every year some nearly 35 million people attend NFL football games with an average ticket price of close to $255 for approximately $9 billion dollars spent. Another near 39 million attend college football games. If the average ticket was $50 ( being very conservative) that would be close to another 2 billion. That's just football.

    We have more than enough to take care of the folks coming in just with the number of people who attend church.

    We choose to not want to because we don't want helping others to affect our standard of living.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Call me selfish and greedy but I still don't see why Americans should have to pay twice for the same refugee.

    The government that used our money to create them is the same government now trying to shame us into paying for their upkeep.

    Would you consider me selfish and greedy for refusing to pay for the same ticket to a football game twice?

    For me it's a matter of common sense and decency. Our government should have the common sense and decency to not create the conditions that create the refugees.
     
    #5 poncho, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    138
    A lot of what you say has merit and definitely demonstrates grace ... however, the scripture teaches wisdom along with financial prudence, and it would be hard to be wise, thrifty, prudent and Godly when spending money to support these refugees and illegals is money this country must borrow at high interest, in order to house, feed and provide care for them. A cost that would be bared by the hosting nation until jobs could be found, and because jobs are scarce in the US, we could be on the hook indefinitely.

    If even a small percent of what I say is factual, then proposing to bring these folks here is in fact not a sound Biblical principle.

    Let me share an example of why bringing them here would be a problem that would be emotionally difficult to end. In order to encourage the adoption of more cats and dogs, the rescue shelters practice leaving their most adorable, most friendly pets in "foster homes!" These folks know that after a few days with the pet at the home of the fostering family the attachment to the pet grows, and 80% of the time, the fostered pet is kept. That's what rge rescue agency is counting on .... AND IN REALITY, that is what this government id counting on by bringing illegals and refugees here. Hoping that Americans will not permit deporting these guexts somewhere down the line. And so far they are batting 1000%..

    This must be stopped if we are to have a nation that is financially stable.

    So while I want to have heart, 19 trillion dollars in debt tell me we have problems to repair here before we open up more lines of credits than we could ever afford to pay back. The days of living high on borrowed money must end....
     
    #6 righteousdude2, Oct 12, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  7. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220

    Perhaps that's the reason behind the leniency. They know that we helped create this.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  8. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    138
    People work hard for a living and after they pay there bills, tithe, give offerings and gifts and meet their obligations, whatsoever they have left over is theirs to spend as they see fit. You call their recreational/downtime spending "greed," I call it recreating to refresh their self and reward theirself for their hard work.

    Your views are socialistic. The views of the man who spends a few dollars to enjoyva game with popcorn, hot dog and soda is what capitalism is all about.

    Of course if you want to spend your hard earned money on these people, go for it. But stop insisting that those who see the world differently then you be made to follow in your footsteps. In other words, if you can afford to care for these folk from cradle to grave if need be. Win the lotto, brother because it won't be cheap.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    You sound like the serpent in the Garden trying to paint a pretty picture of your sin. And spending as you see fit seems to have left out what God sees to be fit.

    Your views are anti-Christ. But it's been evident for years that a lot of "Christians" who have bound themselves to the GOP don't give a flying hoot about anything other than keeping their stuff and being able to pass their stuff on to their kids.

    It's God's money to do with as HE pleases. If He directs me to do something other than what I have been doing with it, then that's what will take place.
     
  10. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    I have a hard time believing that those responsible for creating the conditions that would make all these people flee their own countries have any regard for human life. Perhaps the "reason" we're now being shamed into taking in all these refugees is the dissolution of national sovereignty.

     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    138
    Though you want to use un--Christ like comments and insinuations towards me and others, I know that because Jesus loves you, I must to the same! Shalom!
     
  12. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,468
    Likes Received:
    138
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    It is the height of complete and utter foolishness to bring in Syrian refugees. We do not know who among them are actual refugees and who among them are Isis. We also have every indication that any number of "refugees" we bring in will be full of Isis.

    Also, we have been bringing in "refugees" so to speak from Mexico for years. If we never bring another "refugee" into this country again we have nothing to be ashamed of.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Rolfe

    Rolfe
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2014
    Messages:
    5,305
    Likes Received:
    394
    I just had a thought and am too lazy to look it up. Has Russia agreed to take in any refugees, since they are supposedly fighting ISIS?
     
  15. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    189
    Couple of thoughts here:

    1.) I'm assuming you actually read the links that you post to bolster your assertions, but I am starting to wonder, since your assertion about how many people are on "welfare" was refuted by the link that you posted. The other link you originally posted (the CNN story) explains that the 10,000 refugees are part of the 75,000 refugee quota for the year. In other words, we have already planned to receive 75,000 refugees and this is part of our prepared capacity to do it - not something that we are doing at the last minute. The only thing we didn't know was the identity of the refugees.

    2.) You seem to think that refugees are no willing to work hard and bring no skills to the U.S. As the son and grandson of a refugee family, I can tell you that they worked extremely hard to make a living without taking anything from the government. Moreover, my grandfather started his OWN business using the skills he brought over and did not take a job from anyone else. Healthy economies are always growing and immigrants are often quite entrepreneurial and will create jobs for themselves and others.

    3.) You seem to equate thing the reason that refugees are fleeing their country is for jobs. There may be a few like that, but most are fleeing for fear of their lives. This is not about economic betterment, but survival. When my mother's family was trying to immigrate after World War II, the United States didn't want them. Politicians blocked legislation to allow those poor and undesirable European people from entering the country because they would be a drain on the U.S. economy and they might take jobs away from our boys returning from war. So instead, hundreds of thousands of people, maybe more, were marched at gunpoint to countries that had turned Communist or were otherwise under the control of the Soviet Union. When they arrive, women and little girls were savagely raped and most people were shot. If you were lucky, you ended up in a labor camp for decades. My mother's family was very fortunate that they were able to come to the United States and escape that fate, but it is not because the United States was generous. A compromise bill allowed a small number of people to come IF they had a U.S. sponsor (who had to demonstrate a certain level of financial resources) who would ensure that the refugees would not take a penny of government assistance. That was obviously impossible for most, but my grandmother had a relative she had never met who was in the country who generously decided to do something.

    4.) A joke among my friends is that if you wait until you think you are financially ready to have a baby, you never will. Babies (and children) are extremely expensive and they don't make much economic sense for a long time. But eventually, they will often end up doing more than you ever imagined. We can always come up with excuses that it does not make fiscal sense to do the right thing. Moreover, people have been coming up with the same excuses throughout U.S. history:

    "What means the paying of the passage and emptying out upon our shores such floods of pauper emigrants — the contents of the poor house and the sweepings of the streets? — multiplying tumults and violence, filling our prisons, and crowding our poor-houses, and quadrupling our taxation, and sending annually accumulating thousands to the poll to lay their inexperienced hand upon the helm of our power?" - Lyman Beecher, Leader of the Second Great Awakening, on English immigrants, 1834

    "The enormous influx of alien foreigners will in the end prove ruinous to American workingmen, by REDUCING THE WAGES OF LABOR to a standard that will drive them from the farms and workshops altogether." - Opinion article in the Philadelphia Sun, 1854

    "Standing behind them are Christian employers of this land, who would rather import heathen willing to work for barely enough to sustain life than retain a brother Christian at a wage sufficient to live as becomes a Christian. We do not want Opium or the Chinese who grow it." - Terence Powderly, Irish-American labor leader, 1892

    "We demand the change of the national naturalization laws by the repeal of the act authorizing the naturalization of minors…We demand for the protection of our citizen laborers, the prohibition of the importation of pauper labor, and the restriction of immigration…We protest against the gross negligence and laxity with which the Judiciary of our land administer the present naturalization laws, and against the practice of naturalizing aliens." - statement of principles of the American Protective Association, 1894


    "The people of this country are too tolerant. There’s no other country in the world where they’d allow it... After all we built up this country and then we allow a lot of foreigners, the scum of Europe, the offscourings of Polish ghettos to come and run it for us." - John Dos Passos, early 20th century novelist, on U.S. immigration policy

    "They are coming in such numbers and we are unable adequately to take care of them…It simply amounts to unrestricted and indiscriminate dumping into this country of people of every character and description…If there were in existence a ship that could hold three million human beings, then three million Jews of Poland would board to escape to America." -Congressional hearing, 1920

    "Now, what do we find in all our large cities? Entire sections containing a population incapable of understanding our institutions, with no comprehension of our national ideals, and for the most part incapable of speaking the English language. Foreign language information service gives evidence that many southern Europeans resent as an unjust discrimination the quota laws and represent America as showing race hatred and unmindful of its mission to the world. The reverse is true. America’s first duty is to those already within her own shores." - Representative Grant Hudson, 1924

    We already have clear biblical commands to take care of those who are strangers in need. I would gladly pay a little more in taxes to save some lives. But we are not even talking about that. You are opposed to taking in refugees that are already part of the small allotment established in law and in the budget (that is, if you actually read and understood the primary article you linked).

    So you are concerned that refugees will become beloved members of communities? The horror!

    I see that you want the refugees eventually deported. Refugees usually seek citizenship, so they would not be deported unless they violated the laws of the United States and/or the terms of their immigration status. Seems to me that this might not be about jobs at all.

    Refugee families are usually the most productive people you can imagine. Back in the 1970s, as the U.S. was pulling out of Vietnam, a large number of Vietnamese refugees escaped death and were resettled in the United States - quite a few in my community. After they got their bearings and worked out some plans, they started their own businesses using the skills they had brought with them. They ended up boosting the local economy and became productive and beloved citizens.

    If you stopped assuming that refugees are a drain on the economy, then you might see that they are a net positive to the economic health of a region. Sure, you can find some deadbeats in every community, but they are the exception, not the rule.

    I agree that we are in way over our head in debt, but refugees didn't get us there and they won't have much to do with keeping us there - in fact, they will probably help us pay it off. But the talk about the national debt is a red herring in this discussion.
     
    #15 Baptist Believer, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  16. looc93

    looc93
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    5
    I don't understand these responses, it looks like you are all from western countries. But here in Europe, when you see the crying children, whose family was killed and house bombed you figure out quickly that it's not politics anymore

    It's humanity, ethics and faith. You should not refuse the most fundamental things such as safety, cleanness, and food from these people. All I can say is to come to europe, help people, have a glance and maybe you see otherwise after that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,659
    Likes Received:
    189
    Yes, absolutely.

    I posted a poll about a month ago to see how many people on this board have been refugees themselves, or have family members who have been refugees. No one who participated had been a refugee and very few had family members who have been refugees.

    I don't think it is cold-heartedness for most people, but simply ignorance of the plight of refugees in general. When one does not have the problem on their doorstep, it is easy to come up with reasons not to get involved.

    Thank you for the report from Europe!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. carpro

    carpro
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    20,935
    Likes Received:
    296

    Your words ring hollow , as usual.

    UnChristlike posts are your stock in trade.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. looc93

    looc93
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    5
    Thank you!
     
  20. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    That's strange. RD2 informed me not long ago he was putting me on his ignore list but when I signed in today my alerts told me he marked one of my posts in this thread "disagree".

    How is he able to disagree with something he cannot read?
     
    #20 poncho, Oct 13, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015

Share This Page

Loading...