Refuting Christ the Creator's Sabbath

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    This is from the "Sabbath MADE for MANKIND" thread on Mark 2:27. SFIC wanted to discuss other texts that are better suited to a "NOT made for MANKIND" doctrine.

    Lets discuss these points.
     
  2. BobRyan

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    #1. There is ONLY ONE Holy day that is recorded in the NT that is kept WEEK after WEEK with Bible and worship services held WEEK after WEEK for Gentiles.

    (Care to guess which Holy Day that is?)

    #2. The Sabbath day was "sanctified" was "made A Holy Day" in Gen 2:3 the SEVENTH day of Creation week. In fact that is WHY the Creation week itself is SEVEN days not Six.

    #3. Christ SAID it was MADE for mankind

    #4. We SEE the Sabbath explicitly referenced POST Cross for ALL mankind in the New Heaven and New Earth - Isaiah 66.

    #5. Christ and post-Cross Apostles all attended Sabbath services in honor of Christ the Creator's Word.

    #6. In the Acts 15 debate over gentiles in the church the point is made emphatically that they are hearing Moses preached Every SABBATH in the Synagogues. And we SEE This taking place SABBATH AFTER SABBATH with the Gentiles in Acts 13.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Jim1999

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    Most of us in the Christian Church followed the early disciples to set aside the first day of the week to worship and honour our Lord. We deemed to call it the day of resurrection or at least the moment Mary et al found the empty tomb. It seems appropriate and honourable that we should so worship our God and King..regardless of the day, but we chose Sunday, and Sunday it shall remain, no matter how many cults appear to change it..Seventh Day or Third Day Church, or whatever..As for me, and my house, we shall worship our Lord on Sunday, as the main service of the week.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    PS. All the best to those who choose another day of the week.
     
  4. nate

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    Amen brother Jim.
     
  5. BobRyan

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    There are "no" Sunday after Sunday services recorded in the NT as there are Sabbath after Sabbath in Acts 13 where Gentiles are present.

    You have to admit - that is kind of interesting IF the NT was trying to "introduce" Sunday worship in the way scripture "introduced" the honoring of Christ the Creator's own memorial of Creation.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Ok so we all think that the scripture in Isaiah 66 is correct where it says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" in the NEW heavens and New Earth.

    The question I have is - how will "All mankind" react to such a change if some of them never bothered to keep Christ's day before? I suspect they will simply do as Christ leads and say "Well I guess I was wrong before".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    Acts 20:7 And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    Paul preached to them on the first day of the week when they were assembled.

    I see nowhere in the passage in Acts 20 where Paul rebuked or admonished the disciples for gathering together on the 'first day of the week'. As a matter of fact, he preached the Gospel to them. I also see nowhere here where Paul was admonished for preaching on the first day of the week by the disciples.

    If the preaching on the first day of the week was good enough for Paul who received instruction from the Lord (Galatians 1) and not from man, and it was good enough for the disciples to gather together, it is good enough for me.
     
  8. mountainrun

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    "Acts 15:19 And so, my friends, I don't think we should place burdens on the Gentiles who are turning to God.
    Acts 15:20 We should simply write and tell them not to eat anything that has been offered to idols. They should be told not to eat the meat of any animal that has been strangled or that still has blood in it. They must also not commit any terrible sexual sins.
    Acts 15:21 We must remember that the Law of Moses has been preached in city after city for many years, and every Sabbath it is read when we Jews meet."

    Gentiles were told to do refrain from doing certain things that would offend the Jews who had kept these laws for hundreds of years.

    Keeping the Sabbath is not on the list.

    MR
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Loving God with all your heart (Duet 6:5) is not on the list.

    Loving your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18) is not on the list.

    The Levitical command against eating meat with blood in it IS in the list.

    The list ASSUMES that they will be hearing "Moses read every Sabbath" as James points out and as we SEE THE gentiles DOING in Acts 13 - Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. BobRyan

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    First of all I see you found this thread started in your honor.

    Second acts 20 is NOT a case of week-day-one after week-day-one services but Acts 13 IS a case of gentiles meeting "Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath" (and not merely week-day-seven after week day seven).

    Third - in Acts 2 we see them meeting EVERY DAY from house to house. The ONE time farewell meeting of Acts 20 does not establish "error" nor does the daily meetings (Which would surely include a week-day-one meeting as well as Sabbath) of Acts 2 do not constitute error.

    There is no sin in worshipping God on Sunday, Monday or Tuesday -- "Farewell sermon or not". I never said there was.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    The fact that they were meeting seven days a week or one day a week does not negate that there was no reprimand for meeting on the first day of the week, the Lord's Day. And it does not negate the fact that preaching went on where they assembled on that day.

    Again, I refer you to Colossians 2.

    Quit trying to make yourself look more righteous than those who choose to worship on Sunday.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    As has been stated "already" no reprimand is found in scripture for worship on many days (in fact some of the annual feasts had several days of worship and rest in a row).

    This point "is repeated" but you post as if you have not read it even once.

    That is a curious thing.
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Are you on "autopilot" SFIC?? Are you even reading the post?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. billreber

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    I think a little spiritual insight might be needed here. The original command from God was "Six days shall you labor, and rest on the seventh day" (MY paraphrase). This indicates a workweek of six days, followed by a rest/worship day. NEVER does this command specify WHICH (man-made) calendar day that day of rest and worship should be! In fact, there were provisions made in Leviticus for those who HAD to work on the "Sabbath" to have their personal day of rest and worship on another calendar day.

    Years ago, I was stationed in an Arab country. Our established workweek was Saturday through Wdednesday, with Thursday and Friday off. Our "day of worship and rest" was on Friday.(And yes, we had Christian meetings, even though they were illegal to have in this country).

    Does someone want to try and tell me that God will only honor weekly worship that is done on a Saturday? Or a Sunday? I hope not!

    Bill
     
  15. BobRyan

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    There is a lot of focus today on "I worship on Sunday NOT Saturday because Christ rose on Sunday and to honor His Creation Sabbath is legalism".

    Then there is the group that says "I worship on Sabbath NOT Sunday because that is Christ the Creator's day Made FOR mankind as Christ said in Mark 2:27".

    The "interesting thing" is that while these two views object to each other - they are both AGREEING on the weekly cycle!! Which day is "The Seventh" and which day is "week-day-one".

    MORE interestingly it is even agreed to OUTSIDE of Christian boundaries. The Jews ALSO hold to that SAME weekly cycle - numbering of days!

    How can there be such AGREEMENT not only WITHIN Christianity - among those that strongly disagree BUT ALSO across religions - between Jews and Christians.

    (In fact it EVEN goes to the point of Muslim recognition for some of THEM charge Christians with not keeping the OT Bible Sabbath - Saturday).

    How did there get to be such agreement!!??

    #1. Because as it turns out Calendar science DOES accurately compute days and weeks ALL the way back to the first century and the times of the Romans. So we KNOW which day Christ was keeping.

    #2. God "selected the VERY DAY" in Exodus 16 BEFORE giving the 4th commandment He said "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath".

    So they had "the very day" selected FOR them. The Hebrews have kept it to this very day. EVEN if we seek to doubt that - there is no question that Christ as the Son of God KNEW His own Holy day in the first century AD and ALL agree that Christ kept HIS OWN 10 commandments "perfectly" and without error.

    The bottom line is we DO know the days of the week in terms of numbering and this is in such firm acceptance that BOTH Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians agree on the numbering AS do the Jews!!

    You can hardly find another point where ALL of them agree to the same fact!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. BobRyan

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    Well ok I guess there is "one more fact" they all agree to - but it is "related".

    They all agree that the week is SEVEN days and not six or eight. They all agree that the EVENT that makes it SEVEN and not six is the EVENT of Gen 2:3 the MAKING of the Seventh day "holy".
     
  17. Claudia_T

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    "Does someone want to try and tell me that God will only honor weekly worship that is done on a Saturday? Or a Sunday? I hope not!"

    well when God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat from a certain tree in the Garden, He actually meant what He said.
     
  18. Claudia_T

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    It is amazing that Christians will call other Christians "Cult" when they are the ones who think it appropriate to just change the Word of God to suit their own fancy.You have NO RIGHT to change the Ten Commandments and then come up with some excuse about the resurrection. THE BIBLE never said anything about changing the Sabbath because of the resurrection.


    "Protestants" who claim they go by the "Word Alone" and who rail upon the Catholics for keeping their "traditions" are doing the same thing and in fact GOT the Sunday Sabbath right from the Roman Catholic Church.


    Mk:7:9: And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


    Sunday worship was never practiced by the Christians in the New Testament. But they think all they have to do is keep throwing the word "Cult" around as often as possible and that this is supposed to excuse their bowing to the Pope and obeying Man rather than God.


    "FIRST DAY" BIBLE TEXTS

    Millions of conscientious Christians attend church every Sunday, the first day of the week. They do so believing that somewhere, somehow, someone changed the day of worship. Either that, or they aren't aware that God set aside the seventh day, not the first day of the week as His holy day.
    It is true, a change has been made.
    But by whom? We've discovered that God made the Sabbath during the first week of earth's history. He set it aside as a weekly appointment between man and Himself — as a blessing, a refreshment, a date between two lovers so to speak (God and man).
    If God changed His mind about His special appointment day with us, wouldn't He have recorded so momentous an adjustment in the Bible?
    We've already seen that the beast power claims to have made the change, but what does the Bible say about it?
    There're eight texts in the New Testament that mention the first day of the week. Look at them carefully.
    Matthew 28:1
    Mark 16:1, 2.
    Mark 16:9.
    Luke 24:1.
    John 20:1.
    John 20:19.
    Acts 20:7, 8.
    1 Corinthians 16:1, 2.
    The first five texts simply state that the women came to the sepulcher early on the resurrection morning, and that Jesus rose from the dead.
    Now look up John 20:19 in your Bible. It tells us that Jesus appeared to the disciples later on the resurrection day. It says that the reason they were assembled was "for fear of the Jews."
    They were scared. No telling when the Jews might grab them and treat them to the same fate as their Master. They were hiding.
    They had seen their beloved Master die on Friday. They "returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56. And now they're hiding with the doors shut "for fear of the Jews." John 20:19.
    There's no mention of a change.
    The seventh text is Acts 20:7, 8. It says "and upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together."
    This was a night meeting — the dark part of the first day of the week. In Bible reckoning, the dark part of the day comes before the light part. Genesis 1:5 — "and God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." The dark part comes first.
    The Bible reckons a day from sunset to sunset.
    The seventh day begins at sunset Friday evening. The first day of the week begins sunset Saturday evening.

    Paul is together with his friends on the dark part of the first day of the week — Saturday night. This is a farewell get-together. He preached until midnight, when poor Eutychus falls out the window. (Acts 20:9).
    You can imagine how relieved they were when it was found that God spared his life. Verse eleven says that they talked till the break of day and then Paul departed. Verse thirteen shows that Paul spent that Sunday morning traveling to Assos.
    There's nothing here either concerning a change of the Sabbath.
    The New English bible translates this text like this:
    "On the Saturday night, in our assembly for the breaking of bread, Paul, who was to leave the next day, addressed them, and went on speaking until midnight." Acts 20:7.
    The last text mentions the first day of the week in 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2.
    It says — "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." Verse three tells that he will bring the offering to Jerusalem.
    As he had done in Galatia, so Paul also requests of those in Corinth to have a collection all ready when he would come to take it to the poor saints in Jerusalem. There's nothing in the text about a church service, but each person is to "lay by him in store." The first day of the week was the best time for the people to set money aside because later in the week it would be spent. That's true today as well! Paul requested this so that "there be no gatherings when I come." 1 Corinthians 16:2.
    At this time the Christians are suffering hardship in Jerusalem and Paul is making his rounds to the churches taking up a collection for them. (We should be that thoughtful today).
    There's nothing in this text either about a change of God's Sabbath to Sunday.
    Concerning worship, what was Paul's custom?
    Here it is.
    "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three Sabbaths reasoned with them out of the scriptures." Acts 17:2.
    Jesus, as our example also had the custom of attending church on Saturday, the seventh day. (Luke 4:16).

    The great time prophecies of the Bible have all been fulfilled on schedule. Thus the accuracy and dependability of God's word are firmly established.
     
  19. Claudia_T

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    Another point... you are supposed to worship God every day of the week.

    But the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath tells WHO you worship... which is the Creator of Heaven and Earth.

    In 6 days He created the Heavens and the Earth but on the Seventh Day He rested...

    8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    The Lord did not bless Sunday and hallow it.

    The Roman Catholic Church blessed Sunday and hallowed it.

    And they want all Protestants to do as THEY SAY and hallow it...


    AND YOU ARE!

    "The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."-Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893.

    "The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.

    "Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

    "Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

    This quotation emphasizes the fact that since the world accepts Sunday as a day of worship, this acknowledges her supremacy.

    "I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No; by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. 'Priest Enright, C.S.S.R., Kansas City, Missouri.


    It is just a diversion to try to accuse those Christians who are trying to uphold what God says instead of bowing to what the Roman Catholic Church says of being a "Cult".

    The same ones accuse the Roman Catholic Church of being a "Cult" and yet they gleefully bow to and obey what the Pope tells them to do, claiming it doesnt matter.


    Ezek:20:12: Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

    Ezek:20:20: And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

    Who are YOU to tell God that His Commandment doesnt matter? Or who are YOU to tell God that it doesnt matter if you change it to suit your own fancy?

    It is ricidulous to say "well we keep Sunday as the Sabbath since Jesus resurrected"...

    Well why not decide that you can now commit adultery with your neighbor's wife as well? and just think up some justification for it about some event that took place in the Bible? it makes about as much sense!
     
  20. Paul of Eugene

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    Many have considered reforming our calendar to be numerically easier to handle.

    One proposal is to have 13 months instead of 12. Then all months would be exactly 4 weeks long.

    There would be an extra day. It could be called the "world holiday" and be the beginning or end of the year and not count as a day of the week. Then all weeks weeks would start on Sunday and end on Saturday.

    Leap years would have two world holiday days instead of one.

    The idea founders when one considers how opposed so many would be to the idea of having an the distance between sabbaths streached out by the world holiday once a year. Some would rather die than to have their Sabbath come 8 days apart once in a while.
     

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