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Refuting KJOism, What Works, and What Does Not

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Craigbythesea, Jun 27, 2004.

  1. Orvie

    Orvie New Member

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    How do you know God is not able to speak to us in everyday language, as He did when He wrote His N.T. i.e. Koine Greek? (not Classical Attic Greek). Why are you taking this Roman Catholic position? as they believed the Latin corrected the Originals, you believe the same for the English. The Anglican translators wisely said, "Translated out of the Original Greek, with former translations diligently compared and revised". To their credit, and despite their doctrine, they knew, as any translator knows, the Originals must be consulted, or you wouldn't have a translation.
     
  2. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    How do you pick and choose? You admit the bible doesn't say "Thou shalt use the KJV and ONLY the KJV." So, how do you pick the KJV over all the other English versions?

    And you still have not answered my questions in the other thread. Should I post them over here so you don't have to go looking for them?
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Homebound:Why are you so concerned about the past? Do you know where the word of GOd was then? I'm talking about now, not then.

    God's word didn't just APPEAR. God gave it to men and told them to write it down. In some instances, He chose some of the writings of men, such as the historical narratives of the kings of Israel and Judah, to become Scripture.

    We should look to the oldest-known writings of God's word to be as close to the very originals as He will permit. Without those sources, we wouldn't know what IS God's word.

    Where is God's word now, available for us? In every valid Bible version.
     
  4. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Homebound,

    "CM, I understand that. But think, you don't have 100% proof that I'm wrong."

    Indeed - but you're arguing for exclusivity without proof. I say NO exclusivity SINCE we have no proof. You're arguing from a disadvantage to begin with.

    " What if the KJB is God's complete word? If it is, you and others are in grave danger. If it is not, then we all win."

    If that's the case I'll be fine since the KJB is basically the only English bible I use.
     
  5. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    -Knowing that Psalms 12:6,7, which the modern versions change, is true, I believe it to be found in the KJB.
    -Also, the modern versions disagree with the KJB.
    -I believe there is no need for another translation after the AV1611.
    -It is as GrannyGumbo would say, my "straight stick." It keeps me and my family inline.
    -The world has changed alot since the new versions, for the bad that is.
    -More world in the church today than ever.
    -Principles are not being taught in the church because it might offend someone. :rolleyes:
    -The music is worldly since the new versions.
    -The KJB is imbedded in our history.
    -Look at history and see the events that happened after the 1901 when the NASV, I believe, came out. Wars and Wars, etc.......
    -I think it's because of this modern movement that many Christians today accept the idea that alcohol is okay. I say that it is not okay, unless used by a doctor for medical purposes, i.e., Nyquil, any consumsion is sin.
    -Also the way people dress today in church is not in modest apparel.
    -Kids not obeying their parents.

    All these things, I believe are the result of the KJB not being believed and preached from the home and the pulpit. You asked so I told what I believe.
    I think I did, but if you must, list them here.
     
  6. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo <img src ="/Granny.gif">

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    Good morning, dear broHomeBound! [​IMG] So how goes the battle? Still hanging in there, I see...and doing a mighty fine job, mighty fine! [​IMG] [I saw where a new man is on Board-sure hope he can stay awhile].

    You know what? That's what!...heh-heh, just tho't I'd throw a little bit of funny in there....anyhoo, the other day during one of the dry spots we had, I took a walk across the road into the woods, which runs into a swamp...

    I spied a big ol'snake slithering there along the bank, but did I go pick it up? Noooooo~I did have a big stick (just in case), but I knew enough not to touch it. Kinda like I do my Bible & all them others. ;) I've never had a desire to look elsewhere...maybe there's something wrong wid me? :rolleyes:

    My kin and their kin, etc, always called God's Word in English, The Holy Bible. Later on when I was a young'un, I heard it called the King James Bible, and as I got older, I started hearing the King James Version(I guess because of all those others that were called versions, maybe).

    Well, just wanted to check-in and say "howdy" & to let ya know I'm praying for ya & the others here. Do not ever get off the old paths and always keep a straight stick with you...there's a lotta snakes out there. :eek:
     
  7. LarryN

    LarryN New Member

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    Homebound wrote:
    Oh wow, Homebound is apparently a Gradyite.

    For those not familiar with the term, William P. Grady is the "historian" who wrote What Hath God Wrought: A Biblical Interpretation of American History, and also the "esteemed" KJVO tome, Final Authority. In his writings, Grady promotes the idea that various historical events (wars, assassinations, etc.) are essentially God's retribution following the publications of MV's. For example, according to Grady- President's Lincoln, Garfield, and McKinley were all assassinated essentially as a result of God's vengence for recently translated versions of the Bible. Grady doesn't mention Kennedy's assassination, or the assassination attempts on Truman, Ford, or Reagan- although his book postdates these events. In Grady's worldview, maybe this latter group is an indication that God's trigger-finger isn't quite so itchy anymore; or perhaps His aim isn't quite what it used to be. &lt;sarcasm&gt;

    To read more about Grady, here's a link:

    http://www.kjvonly.org/other/ross_grady.htm
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Originally posted by HomeBound:
    -Knowing that Psalms 12:6,7, which the modern versions change, is true, I believe it to be found in the KJB.
    Ps. 12:6,7 was found in the scripture and the MT long before you were born and many years before the KJV ever came into a thought.

    -Also, the modern versions disagree with the KJB.

    That is the same arguemt the old folks used at one time with old cars. But I see none of them driving old cars today. None of them complain about the comfort and gas mileage of the new cars either.

    -I believe there is no need for another translation after the AV1611.

    Same old argument used by those who did not support a new version when the KJV arrived on the scene

    -It is as GrannyGumbo would say, my "straight stick." It keeps me and my family inline.

    Read your Bible sometime and you find out God disagrees with you. Sometime read Hosea 6:6, “For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.” The KJV does not and never did anything for anybody. It is obedience that God demands.It is not the Bible at work. It is God at work in the life of a person that transfroms.


    -The world has changed a lot since the new versions, for the bad that is.

    Could you name some ways that it has gotten worse than how it was in Corinth?


    -The music is worldly since the new versions.

    The same thing was said after Watts began to publish music.

    -The KJB is imbedded in our history.

    So is sin.


    -I think it's because of this modern movement that many Christians today accept the idea that alcohol is okay. I say that it is not okay, unless used by a doctor for medical purposes, i.e., Nyquil, any consumsion is sin.

    Didn’t Jesus drink wine? Didn’t Paul recommend to Timothy a little wine for his stomach? When I lived in the south I saw more alcoholic beverages than anywhere I have lived in the US.


    -Kids not obeying their parents.

    You forgot to read the OT.

    All these things, I believe are the result of the KJB not being believed and preached from the home and the pulpit.

    Sometime you need to sit down and read your Bible. You don’t seem to understand sin. Sin existed long before the KJV Bible.
     
  9. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    How does God preserving the poor and needy against those who would destroy them prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version?
    Yes, we know. How does that prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version? In fact your proof and your conclusion seem to be the same thing. That is called "circular reasoning."
    I don't either, yet, but that still doesn't prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version.
    What do you measure it against to know it is straight?
    The world had changed a lot for the worse from the time of the Apostles until 1611 too, so how does that prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version?
    That was true in 1525 also, so how does that prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version?
    That was true in 1500 too. How does that prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version?
    The music GOT worldly while the KJV was the only English version. Does that prove the worldly music is the KJV's fault?
    So is the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate. How does that prove the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version?
    Looking at all of western history there were over 100 times as many wars prior to the modern versions than before them. Does that prove the wars were the fault of the KJV?
    So, you are saying that the KJV translators, many of whom drank, and a few of whom were drunks, did so because of the KJV?
    Women in Africa don't wear anything from the waste up. Is that the bible's fault?
    Socrates said exactly the same thing a couple thousand years ago!
    But what you "believe" makes no rational sense. It is based on fiction and not on fact. You still have not given me one good reason for you to believe the KJV is the Perfectly Preserved English version.
    Okay, one cut and paste, coming up! [​IMG]
     
  10. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    Okay, yes. But the MV like to use him instead of them, which would change the meaning.
    We're not talking about cars here.
    You better look in Hosea 6:6 yourself and see that God delights in the knowledge we have of him. Guess were we get that knowledge, the BIBLE.
    Really, then why does God demand that we go out and preach the Gospel to this lost world? How can we preach if we don't have God's word?
    True, but faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. God holds his word above his name.
    Murder is acceppted(abortion), no prayer in our schools, the flag disgraced, sodomy , etc. But the bible says that there is no new day under the sun, but it can get worse.
    Not fermented wine, no sir.
    Yes, for medical purposes, but it was probably not fermented wine because when you go to the doctor today for a stomach ache, he will recommend you stay away from alcohol.
    May be, so?
    Yes it did, I agree. But it's getting worse.
     
  11. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    HomeBound, here is the post in question:
    You didn't.
    We are not talking about typos and other printer's errors. We are talking about entirely different words. I even listed them for you.
    Wait a minute! In your "answer" you said the AV1611 was wrong and the KJV1762/1769 was correct. If the AV 1611 was wrong how could it be the "inspired, preserved word?"
    I am not talking about spelling errors. I am talking about entire different words! You said the AV1611 was WRONG! Now you say "God's message" was not lost, Does that mean you believe only the message and not the WORDS were inspired and preserved?
    Please, Homebound, don't be deceptive. I did not list any spelling or printer's errors. I listed words from the AV1611 which are DIFFERENT from the words of the KJV1762/1769.
    So, you are saying that you don't know which bible is the perfect, inspired, preserved word of God, the AV1611 or the KJV1762/1769? If you don't know which one is right, how can you trust the one you are using?</font>[/QUOTE]
     
  12. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    I think Jesus and Timothy both drank wine - the fully fermented kind! Remember that this was about the only thing that wouldn't spoil in the age before refrigerators. We don't need alcohol today since we can keep our drinks safe!
     
  13. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Homebound,

    Remember I have nothing against the KJB - but how can we REALLY say given the changes (albeit small ones) that the KJB is the word for word inspired ONLY bible. I understand that you and others feel that God has showed this to you - but that doesn't really qualify as God's written revelation that is binding upon others.

    If there were one complete manuscript written by apostles' hands that we knew was directed translated into the KJB then I'd likely be KJBO too. But the fact is that it just didn't happen that way.
     
  14. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    [/QB][/QUOTE]That's just it, I do trust the one I'm using. Doctrinelly speaking the av1611 and the 1769 is no different.
     
  15. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    True, it will take the Holy Spirit to show you, I obviously cannot.
    True. God preserved his word in other Bibles before the KJB. I just believe the Bible was complete in 1611. There is no need for another translation.
     
  16. LarryN

    LarryN New Member

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    And neither is there any doctrinal difference between the 1769 and, say, the NASB.

    What you've essentially just admitted is that, as long as there are no doctrinal differences, the exact wording of God's Word isn't the real issue.

    Thank you.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Homebound:True. God preserved his word in other Bibles before the KJB. I just believe the Bible was complete in 1611. There is no need for another translation.

    There's absolutely no basis for such a belief. You KNOW those earlier English Bibles are each different from any other, as is the KJV. There's no evidence whatsoever that God retired in 1611. You know as well as I that the language has changed over the years, and that in earlier times God caused His word to appear in the English of those days. There's no reason to believe He quit updating His word as time passed.
     
  18. aefting

    aefting New Member

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    You know, if I had said that about the KJV and a conservative MV, you would probably ask me (as you did last year), 'aefting, just one question, are you saved?'

    Andy
     
  19. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Homebound,

    I think if the Spirit were in the business of revealing KJBOism to people He'd have made things a little more clear. Although there are lots of manuscripts and multiple revisions of the KJB it still seems perfectly clear to you that the KJB in your study is the only word of God; and the NASB in someone else's is a satanic by product.

    It seems that you have long since decided what you think is right - and then you do the research AFTER the fact.
     
  20. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    But why? My question was not "Do you trust the one you are using?" I asked "If you don't know which one is right, how can you trust the one you are using?" And you still continue to dodge giving an honest answer.
    Doctrinally speaking the KJV and NKJV are not different either. Are you now endorsing the NKJV?

    And, once again, I can't help but noticed you avoided answering ANY of my questions. How can you claim to be an honest person if you keep dodging the questions?
     
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