Featured Regenerated/saved "through faith"

Every verse you used was written to Christians about Christians. Why not take Scripture in its context instead of out of context making it a pretext.

Take the example of Paul, first named Saul. Saul was traveling to Damascus. He was carrying papers to persecute believers and throw them in jail. He was in the flesh! Suddenly Christ appeared to him. He was still in the flesh! A voice cried out: "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me"? Paul answered, "Who art thou Lord"?
--I believe at that moment Paul got saved. No Jew, especially a Pharisee, a member of the Sanhedrin, would have addressed Jesus "Lord." But Paul just submitted to Jesus as Lord. He was in the flesh! But at that point he got saved, and accordingly the Spirit would have come and indwelt him. We see the change in his life immediately.
"Lord what would you have me to do"? From complete rebellion, there is complete submission. He obeys the Lord, soon after is baptized and soon after that we find him preaching the gospel. What a transformation in this man's life.

 

What are you talking about Nero will not save you? That is just ill logic.

The scripture about the demons even believing there is One God, that IS about just believing without actions.

Do you think that having salvation is you picturing in your mind the Son of God on a cross and rising from the dead while saying you believe qualifies you for the promises?

How do you think that happens? Do you not know that scripture is about obeying Jesus?

The thief on the cross did more than just say he believed. The thief on the cross feared God, and humbled himself, and acknowledged that he was getting what he deserved, and called on the name of the Lord when he asked Jesus to remember him.

You do not understand, for we WANT to do good, and we HAVE to do good, or else what is working out your salvation with trembling and fear mean. It is GOOD TO FEAR GOD. I take pleasure in the fear of the Lord, for the outcome is overcoming sin.

You have contradicted yourself, for one time you told me you were not sorry for your sins when you were saved, then another time you wrote that you asked the priest for forgiveness.

Again, you have given contradictory information. If you were sorry for your sins say so, for that is important in Jesus saving a person. You mentioned the Holy Spirit convicting a person of sins, so does that not prove to you that you should not fight the conviction but admit sorrow for sinfulness!

Can you please be more respectful when you debate and speak of Christ Jesus?

You do not understand the meaning of works. You do not understand that we MUST obey.

 

A complete ignoramus is void of knowledge. I hope you have more knowledge than "Jesus saves." I know you do. You have many beliefs. 1+1=2. You cannot deny that fact. It is a belief of yours. You have faith that it is true. You might even say "It is true because God made it that way." But that "fact" will not save you. It is not a spiritual truth; it is a secular truth, but truth nevertheless. We still have "faith" in knowledge, that is true. We believe it to be true based on its credibility.

Can Jesus save. Yes. I have faith that he saves. My faith is based on the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That is the gospel. It is not on my works or good deeds or obedience. It is based on the work of Christ and Him alone.

No, it is not. I believed without action also. The object of my belief was Christ and his work on the cross. The basis of my belief was the promises of Christ as recorded in the Bible.
The demons believe there is one God, as you believe 1+1=2. They know it to be true. But the work of Christ on the cross is not the object of their faith. Rather they are following Satan whom they believe will conquer God.

What I picture in my mind is irrelevant. God is spirit; they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24).
Biblical Faith is based on the promises of God. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. It is not by works (obedience). Obedience always comes after salvation; it is not a requirement for salvation. Obedience (works) and faith do not mix.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
--This verse has nothing to do with obedience, per se.
It has to do with one's relationship with Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship. It results in the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus Christ abides within. These are not just stale meaningless theological statements. God's Spirit does actually bear witness with my spirit, so that I have no doubt that I am his child. I see his power. I experience it, see answers to prayer, see the Holy Spirit working not only in my life but the lives of others. He leads me, directs me where he wants me to go. His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am his child. This is one of the great evidences that one is a Christian. It is not talking about simple "obedience."

I have heard that stale argument before. It holds no water.

I am afraid you are the one that has it backwards.
Look at what Paul says:

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
--The love of Christ constrains us (compels us) [to do good]. He didn't have to want to do good first. He was compelled to do good because of the love of God that worked in his life.

Once again you are harping on "sorry for your sins." I never said anything about being "sorry for one's sins." Where did you get that from, and why did you bring that into this conversation?
I simply said, "I did good works because I was a new creature in Christ."
Where is the contradiction? Christ saved me. He made me a new creature in Christ, and then the desire came to do works, not before. I never said one thing about being sorry for sins. You are confused.

I never said anything about being sorry for one's sins. Why are you bringing this into the debate? It is a red herring. Being sorry for one's sin doesn't save a person. There is no Scripture that says it is, and you have never provided one. I trusted Christ as my Savior. That is not being sorry for my sins. Jesus saved me. It is Jesus that saves; not being sorry for one's sins. If you think you got saved by being sorry for your sins, then you are not saved. You are in the same boat as Judas Iscariot, for he was sorry for his sins also.
It seems as if you didn't even read my post.
Before I was saved I didn't want to do good.
After I was saved the Holy Spirit came and dwelt within and changed my life so that I had a desire to do good.

I am as respectful as the Bible is respectful. You don't like what the Bible says?

Matthew 27:30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.
Matthew 26:67 Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands,
--Again, if you think works are required for salvation it is the equivalent of spitting in the face of Jesus and telling him that your blood was not sufficient enough to pay for my salvation. How blasphemous.
It is like telling him that you had to help Jesus on the cross because he was not strong enough to do it himself, therefore you had to help him with your works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith...and not of works!

 

dhk

Scripture explains scripture. Now, Faith pleases God Heb 11:6, and scripture also states, that they which are in the flesh [which all who are not born again are] cannot please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

That plainly means that an unregenerated person cannot possible please God with the Faith of Heb 11:6 ! And yet you say you can ! Who do I believe ? I surely do not believe you !

 

Look DHK, I do not care about all your teachings of man’s wisdom and this and that, not when it comes to God’s Word. Jesus saves. Believe, repent, and call on the name of the Lord.

Of course, Jesus does it alone, but he does it to those he chooses!

No, as you believe. You believe that we cannot even be sorry for our sins, kind of sounds like something the demons would say too.

It does matter what is in your mind. God says it matters.

With a heart that says no to obedience to God, sounds as if a belief of the demons to me.

It definitely DOES have all to do with obedience. Being led by the Spirit means obedience! If we share in his sufferings is about obedience! One who has suffered in their body is done with sin.
1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin.
14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”( 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

What fruits of the Spirit do you have? How is that not about obeying?
How do you see His power? How do you experience it? How does that all not have to do with obeying?
How does God lead you and direct you where he wants you to go? How is that not about obeying?
You do not see that it is about obedience.
Since you say you are saved, stop teaching others that they do not have to be sorry for sins, and stop making obedience not as important. Stop also attacking true Christians that are obedient to the Lord and just want to preach that to others.

Were you compelled to sin first? Sinning is never excusable. Your argument against me is null. Where do I say do good? What do you mean do good? It is good to obey Jesus, but what do you mean do good? Again, it is never excusable to sin. It is not a work to feel sorry for sins and to confess. It is not a work to humble yourself.
I believed in God and Jesus my whole life. I desired God and Jesus and wanted to know Him. I did not know Him until after I started obeying. The word of God says those who say they know Him but do not obey are liars.

You call it harping on being sorry for your sins, but we are in a debate group, and I am refuting your false teachings.

You said when you were a Catholic you asked the priest to forgive you for your sins. People do not ask for forgiveness and expect to receive it if they are not sorry. You said we do not have to be sorry for sins to be saved. You said we could not even be sorry before we are saved. What do you think it means that God searches our hearts, and God who knows the heart means? Do you think God will accept you if in your heart your feelings to your sins are as those of the demons?

Obeying is not good works. Good works are like helping people out and doing things for them.

It is not a red herring. It is the words of God. Stop saying being sorry does not save a person. Jesus saves people whom he chooses to save, after knowing the heart and accepting us.

If you were not sorry for your sins, then what were you trusting Jesus for?

You reject what I patiently explain to you, and you heap abusive words on me.
Stop with your blasphemous comments to me. Jesus himself saved me.

 

Does this mean that your faith is purely based on written passages of the bible that you have read and came to understand? How do yo believe the reality of Jesus today?

 

How can scripture which are merely words and inks and papers can explain for itself? Can't we open up our eyes wide open for us to see that the ones who do the explanations/interpretations of the scritptures are none other but just the people who read it?

 

Born of the water, which can refer to being washed in the scriptures, and born of the Spirit, born from above!

God grants BOTH internal/external means for one to get saved, as the Bible is taken and used by the Holy Spirit, as He enables one to hear/read the Bible, and to grant to us the grace needed to be able to accept and understand what we just read, and turn to Christ and get saved!

 

I am a calvinist as regards to Sotierology , but also do hold that one is enabled by God to have the means to receive Jesus, and once there is the sovereign moment in which the Holy Spirit enables one to be actually able to respond in faith, and we hear/read the truth of Christ, one gets saved by God!


I do not see scripture supporting either NO need to place faith in jesus in order to get saved, as Hyper cal would hold too, or that God can regenerate us years before actual faith in christ, as some reformed would hold too!

 

Therefore, then, the words of God and, the message that saves and, the power of the cross and, the mystery revealed is really dead, as implied by your teachings.

As for being drawn by God…after Jesus was lifted up, he draws all men to himself, John 12:32. Before that, only Jews could come to God through Jesus, and only the Jews who believed in God before Jesus came to earth.

 

Though we both reject the hyper-Cal view, I believe we disagree here as well, if I understand you correctly. Are you not saying essentially the same thing in different words that God gives faith to a person and then they are able to put their faith in Christ. Thus it is regeneration, then faith, then salvation.

Or am I reading you wrong. The Holy Spirit's ministry is described in John 16, to convict the world of sin, righteous and judgment. As he convicts us of our sin, our eyes are opened to our own sinfulness and our need of a Savior then that truth that we either have heard or are hearing becomes "more alive" to us, and we believe it. God has brought the Word from childhood memories with some. He has used it in tracts with others. And often while sitting under the preaching of the Word. Is not that the true meaning of the verse:

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The Word must always come first. Exactly when the Holy Spirit is going to act upon the individual, or use his Word we don't know.

 

The reality of Jesus is based on recorded facts that are printed for us in the Bible. It is the Word of God insomuch as it is accurately translated from the original languages. God promised to keep his Word. I believe he has kept that promise, and therefore I believe we have his Word. I am not concerned that the means by which his Word is communicated to us is through the printed page. That is what God chose. He commanded his apostles to write. And so they did.

 

We BOTH affirm that salvation is from God alone, that we MUST place faith in jesus to be saved by His grace, we both affirm that the Gospel is used by God as medium to take salvation out to World, both that the Holy Spirit is at work to convict us...

We disagree as to faith, as I hold a gift from God, you I believe produced by the Gospel message.....

So we still disagree, but both still discussing as Christians brothers...

NOT as some here hold, as those teaching either no need for faith to get saved, or have to Obey god first would be my 'brothers!"

 

Just a follow-up questions; may we know how do you acknowledge Jesus Christ, is He the Almighty Lord God? If so, how can an infinite Supreme Being's reality be based on a recorded facts that are printed in a book called the bible? Is the bible infinite and infallible to you? Is there really no othe way for you to discover the reality of Jesus except those which are written in the bible?

Who, in our time today, has/had witnessed the original texts/handwritings and languages of those scriptures commanded then by God to be written, has/had you? I ask this because your words "accurately translated."

Does this mean that what you are saying in totality about God and the scriptures is purely based on how you believe things in the bible? Can you please enlighten us more on how do you face God by how He (God) really does exist and live on His own existence?

 

The plan is predestined.

No, you are the one who perverts.

What you say makes no sense at all. What confusion you advocate.
You and others in false religions wrongly use those scriptures because you do not understand it.

You said, "Faith is granted to anyone who does and will believe in Christ." You say faith is granted to those who have faith. That does not make any sense.

God HARDENED people. If God had reason to harden people that should show you that people can believe on their own. A person would have to be in the pit of darkness not see and understand that.


Jesus came first for the Jews, and not just any Jews, but only the lost sheep of Israel. Jews who believed in God through faith, the rest were hardened so that they could not believe and be saved. God cut unbelieving Jews off and grafted in believing Gentiles.
The hardened and cut off Jews were not hardened and cut off forever; they can be grafted back in if they do not persist in unbelief.