Regeneration and Faith

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jbh28, Feb 15, 2012.

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What is the order of Regeneration and Faith

  1. Regeneration chronologically precedes faith.

    29.4%
  2. Regeneration logically precedes faith but not chronologically.

    17.6%
  3. Regeneration and faith happen at the same time.

    23.5%
  4. Faith precedes regeneration logically but not chronologically.

    5.9%
  5. Faith precedes regeneration chronologically.

    23.5%
  6. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. jbh28

    jbh28
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    What is the order in salvation of regeneration and faith. Please use Scripture to defend your view. Here is the explanations of what I believe the different views are.

    Regeneration chronologically precedes faith.
    A person can be regeneration but not have faith for some period of time.

    Regeneration logically precedes faith but not chronologically.
    while they happen at the same time, logically regeneration precedes faith.

    Regeneration and faith happen at the same time.
    When God saves a person, that person is regenerated and given faith at the same time. There is no logical nor chronological order.

    Faith precedes regeneration logically but not chronologically.
    while they happen at the same time, logically faith precedes regeneration.

    Faith precedes regeneration chronologically.
    A person can have faith but not be regenerate. Maybe only for a moment or a long time.
     
  2. Forest

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    Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 5. You do not have access to faith until God quickens you to a spiritual life.
     
  3. jbh28

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    And what verses would you use to support that. Also, do you have any examples in the Bible where it said they were regenerate, but didn't have faith?
     
  4. kyredneck

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    Regeneration chronologically precedes faith usually by years imo.
     
  5. kyredneck

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    I thought you were DoG. Guess I was wrong.
     
  6. jbh28

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    What did I say that was against DoG?
     
  7. kyredneck

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    DoG generally hold to regeneration before conversion. I guess (I've met) some that hold that regeneration occurs nanoseconds before belief, you know, so close together that you can't tell which actually happened first.
     
    #7 kyredneck, Feb 15, 2012
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  8. jbh28

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    I hold that when God saves you, he regenerates you, gives you faith, ability to repent, justification....
     
  9. convicted1

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    I agree that regeneration does not precede salvation, but one must have faith prior to this happening.

    You are stating that salvation occurs prior to having faith....or so it seems in your post.
     
    #9 convicted1, Feb 16, 2012
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  10. jbh28

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    Take the "he regenerates you, gives you faith, ability to repent, justification...." as a salvation "package" so to speak. All happen at the same time. All from God.
     
  11. convicted1

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    We both agree that regeneration does not occur before salvation. However, I see faith as something a sinner must have prior to being saved. Jesus told more than one that their faith had made them whole. If they had faith to be made whole before being made whole, then faith occurred prior to the healing. Same way with salvation; faith precedes salvation. Or this is the way I see it.
     
  12. Winman

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    I voted that faith precedes regeneration and there are MANY examples in scripture.

    Jhn 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
    46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

    Nathanael believed the word of God, he believed that God would send "The Prophet" that Moses had foretold. He did not know who this person was, yet he believed God's promise, he had faith.

    Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
    50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.

    Verse 49 is when Nathanael actually believed on Jesus as the Christ.

    All of the disciples except Judas believed on Jesus before they were "converted".

    Jhn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

    Here we see the disciples believed on Jesus. Were they converted yet? No.

    Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
    32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren

    Peter had faith here, but he was not converted, the Lord himself said so. The Lord said that if a person was not converted, then he was not "healed" and could not enter heaven.

    Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

    We see here that being converted precedes being healed. Or rather, that a person is not "healed" until the moment they are converted.

    Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    You cannot enter heaven unless you are converted, but we know Peter had faith before he was converted.

    I could name many other examples such as Cornelius who feared God, yet he was not saved. We know this because the angel that spoke to him told him to send for Peter who would tell him words whereby he would be saved.

    Acts 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
    14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

    Cornelius believed in God, he had faith long before he was saved.

    Jhn 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

    These people had faith, they believed in God, yet they had not believed on Jesus yet. Until you believe on Jesus you are not saved, just as Cornelius believed in God, but had not yet trusted in Jesus, because he had never heard of Jesus.
     
    #12 Winman, Feb 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2012
  13. kyredneck

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    By Thomas R. Schreiner at SBTS:

    Does regeneration necessarily precede conversion?

    Excerpts:

    "The answer to the question is “yes,”...."

    "Regeneration means that one has been born again or born from above (John 3:3, 5, 7, 8). The new birth is the work of God, so that all those who are born again are “born of the Spirit......Regeneration or being born again is a supernatural birth. Just as we cannot do anything to be born physically—it just happens to us!—so too we cannot do anything to cause our spiritual rebirth."

    "Conversion occurs when sinners turn to God in repentance and faith for salvation"

    "Several texts from 1 John demonstrate that regeneration precedes faith......"

    "God regenerates us and then we believe, and hence regeneration precedes our conversion. Therefore, we give all the glory to God for our conversion, for our turning to him is entirely a work of his grace."
     
    #13 kyredneck, Feb 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2012
  14. kyredneck

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    So Abraham was unregenerate prior to Gen 15:6?
     
  15. convicted1

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    Remember, Abraham was imputed/accounted after he believed, and not before.
     
  16. jbh28

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    interesting...I just read this after created the thread last night.
     
  17. kyredneck

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    So, was it an unrighteous man that Jehovah called out of Mesopotamia years earlier, appeared to several times, and announced blessings upon?

    Was it an unregenerate man that built an altar to Jehovah at Shechem years earlier?

    Was it to a dead alien sinner that Melchizedek pronounced 'Blessed be Abram of God Most High' years earlier?

    I think not.
     
    #17 kyredneck, Feb 16, 2012
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  18. Greektim

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    I believe the clear biblical teaching is that one must sequentially (logically) be brought to life in order to believe. That is the only way that fits best w/ the presentation of humanity and its depravity.
     
  19. Winman

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    And exactly which scriptures teach this?
     
  20. DaChaser1

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    Would say that without faith, it is impossible to please God, bu that all those whom had been preappointed to salvation heard the message of the Gospel and place faith in christ!

    hebrews and Acts!
     

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