Regeneration: Instantaneous or Elongated

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin Marprelate, May 28, 2011.

  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    On another thread, I voiced the opinion that the New Birth is not a instantaneous event. Here is something I wrote on the subject a while ago to start discussion.

    Full article here.
    http://marprelate.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/new-birth-7-the-order-of-the-new-birth/

    Steve
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1
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    Well Brother, "regenration" is a new birth. A new birth doesn't happen over a period of time, but is instaneous. When a baby is born, its born right then, and not over a period of time, Sure, there's first conception(seed being planted), and then the egg grows until it is a baby ready to be born. All this takes place in the womb. That's just like when God draws someone. When God begins drawing someone, a seed is planted. Over time, that person hears preaching, and maybe even someone who just talks to them about the bible. This is like watering a plant, or in the case of the fetus, maturation of the baby in the womb. But when the blood of Christ is given to that person, and they get that drink of living water, then, and only then, are they born again/born from above, and regenerated. Regeneration and salvation, to me, are interchangeable terms, meaning the same thing.

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  3. Winman

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    1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    The scriptures say we are the sons of God NOW. But it also shows that being born again, we are in a state of development, not unlike human birth. A person is living the moment they are conceived and begins to develop. A person is not fully developed at nine months when they are born, they continue to develop for many years. Being born again is the same.
     
  4. Jerome

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    "O, mark how simple the way of salvation is. It is, "Look! look! look!" Four letters, and two of them alike! "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth." Some divines want a week to tell what you are to do to be saved; but God the Holy Ghost only wants four letters to do it. "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth." How simple is that way of salvation!" —Charles Spurgeon
     
  5. webdog

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    Birth is an event not a process. Nobody has a birthdate that is a 9 month span. Even a birth certificate narrows the event to the very minute. Trying to say the new birth is over a period of time is to redefine the very word "birth"
     
  6. Skandelon

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    Plus, it would be interesting to know the difference in someone who is 14% reborn versus someone 35% reborn versus someone 96% reborn versus someone who is all the way reborn.

    I guess they think of regeneration like sanctification? :confused:
     
  7. Winman

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    I agree with you completely Webdog. The development I was speaking of is what we would call sanctification. It is a growing in the Lord. But we are a new creature the moment we believe as you said.
     
  8. Winman

    Winman
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    Believeing is a decision that cannot be undone. Imagine a soldier who runs over a roadside bomb. His leg is badly mangled. He asks the doctors if his leg can be saved. They tell him yes, but it will be useless. He would have great difficulty walking, he would suffer great pain in trying to do so, he would require many surguries, and he would likely suffer serious health problems. They tell him if they are allowed to remove the damaged part of the leg and replace it with a prosthetic leg he would recover quickly and in short time resume an active and fairly normal life. He agrees and the damaged portion of his leg is removed. It takes the soldier a few months to become accustomed to the artificial limb, but he works hard and quickly does so.

    This is a decision that cannot be undone. When you believe on Christ you are born again and are sealed by the Spirit. This cannot be undone. But just like a new limb, it takes time and work to be fully functional.

    What was the seal that Abraham received showing his faith? Circumcision. Can that be undone?
     
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    That is exactly what I'm talking about. Surely it is very few people's experience that they go from total unbelief to faith in an instant. There is first an interest in matters of religion, then a questioning, then conviction of sin, then a realization of the need of a saviour and only then is there a turning to Christ as Lord and Saviour. Is something like this not the experience of most of us?

    On another thread, Skandelon quoted Spurgeon:-
    Amen! But nor does it make sense to preach to those who are dead unless God will make them alive as in Ezek 37 (see especially v5). But even here there is an elongated process: New life does not come to the dry bones at once; it comes in two stages (vs 4-8 & 9-10).

    Steve
     
  10. percho

    percho
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    And who says what after this was said? Did they look and are they saved?
    Methinks we tried to cover this in another thread. Emp. on tried.
     
  11. percho

    percho
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    I agree with you brother even if you do not agree with me, for that which is born of the spirit is spirit and is no longer flesh and blood.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    I believe that the steps TO regeneration may involved time. (These MUST happen - effective calling of His elect, awakening, convicting, etc)

    I believe the steps FOLLOWING regeneration may involve time. (These WILL happen - repentance, faith, calling on the Lord, conversion, sanctification, glorification)

    But I believe regeneration itself IS that instant when the Spirit changes the heart and bestows new life.
     
  13. kyredneck

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    Well Brother, you and I agree on that much of it!

    I believe it takes about as long for the spiritual 'birth from above' to occur as it did for Christ to say the words "Lazarus come forth".

    It took a whole lot longer to loose Lazarus from his graveclothes and to get the stench of a dead man off from him than it did for Christ to make him alive.
     
  14. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother
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    :thumbsup::thumbsup:

    it took me awhile to get rid of graveclothes
     
  15. convicted1

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    Bro. Jeff, I agree with this wholeheartedly!! One does not get the new bith(regeneration) without the blood, nor does someone obtain salvation without the blood. So again, how can anyone be regenerated and not saved?? Being born again/born from above isn't like a "step up" process, where you this now, and then later you get that. Being born by God comes in one lump sum, plain and simple.

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    convicted:

    Yes, but the baby was conceived before it was brought forth in birth 9 months after. Thats why abortion would be considered killing, it does not have to be when the baby is brought forth in birth before it had life given to it of God..
     
  17. convicted1

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    But again, you're missing the point. Jesus stated, "Except ye eat of My flesh, and drink of my BLOOD, ye have no life in you". So without the blood, you have no "eternal life" in you. So, one can not be regenerated(i.e. the new birth) without the blood.

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
    #17 convicted1, May 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2011
  18. glfredrick

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    First, thanks for at least bringing into the discussion all the component parts of what we call "salvation."

    Regeneration is one of those parts.

    While we place them in a logical order (ordo salutis), there may be no actual time involved, as most of the components of salvation occur in the instant that God supernaturally does what only He can do.

    I believe that Martin Luther took up your argument, and it launched the Protestant Reformation -- justification is instant and of God alone. Millard Erickson summarizes, "Justification is God's action pronouncing sinners righteous in his sight. We have been forgiven and declared to have fulfilled all that God's law requires of us. Historically, it was this issue that preoccupied Martin Luther and led to his break from the Roman Catholic Church." (Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology, 2nd ed. (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 1998), 968.)

    The difference between Catholicism and Martin Luther on justification can be seen in which word they use when explaining the way a believer is pronounced righteous—infusion or imputation. The RC Council of Trent proclaims justification primarily as an infusion of grace which changes an individual's spiritual and moral nature. Therefore, justification is a process where believers actually become righteous. Ultimately, a Christian earns eternal life as he or she becomes righteous.

    Martin Luther strenuously opposed this view, holding that justification is a declarative act whereby God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the believer. Christ's righteousness justifies a Christian, not his or her own righteousness or good works. Essentially, justification is transformative in Catholicism, whereas justification is declarative for Martin Luther, and for us as well.
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    convicted:

    Sorry, you are missing the point. There must be a generation before there can be a birth from that generation. Thats seen from the beginning with Adam. Gen 5:1

    1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

    2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

    "
    That does not contradict a thing I said, in fact, it only confirms it, how can one eat spiritually, if there is no spiritual life already existent. Surely you know Christ flesh and blood are spiritual don't you ? Matt 5:

    6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

    These blessed ones are those who appropriate the body and blood of Christ. They had been given Spiritual Life to do that !

    Where did I state that you could. However the blood does not in itself give one New Birth, but its the reason why one does receive new birth, those having their sins forgiven by the blood of Christ, are the only ones who have the right to a new birth. That right is theirs because of Christ blood giving them Justification unto Life.

    Rom 5:18

    18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    All those Christ Blood JustifiedZoe [Rom 5:9] receive a Spiritual Life. A New Birth..Thats why it's Justification of Life came upon all for whom Christ died.

    Justification is a legal Term, but life is a principle of life or vitality. Its the greek word zōē:


    life

    a) the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate

    b) every living soul

    2) life

    Its also expressed in acts 11:18

    When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

    This is the same thing, Christ gives all of His People He represented and died for Repentance unto Life, again Spiritual Life which manifests itself in Faith and Repentance.
     
  20. MB

    MB
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    If Salvation is such long process and regeneration still means being made new. Why the conviction afterwards???? When scripture says plainly that those born of God sin not. I know that if I were in the position of being perfect, ("sinning in my past for ever"), I wouldn't want to look back. So what purpose is there if we are in effect saved first, and then convicted afterwards. Just seems rahter shocking that this tool of the Holy Spirit known as conviction wouldn't be used to draw men in the first place to Christ.

    What is the tool used in drawing a man?. Is it a Lure? or a rope.
    MB
     

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