Religious beliefs of the founding fathers

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Feb 8, 2013.

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  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Good Christian folks exist in either of the two theological positions.

    I just post this to make this point: If Calvinism is "heresy" or "false doctrine" as so many "non-cals" so often state on here, then our founding fathers were largely a bunch of heretics. Below are the religious views of the signers of the Constitution.

    I found this that someone worked out. The religious view identified is consistent with the statement of faith for the particular denomination of which the founder was a member.

    New Hampshire

    * John Langdon, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    * Nicholas Gilman, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    Massachusetts

    * Elbridge Gerry, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Rufus King, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Caleb Strong, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    * Nathaniel Gorham, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    Connecticut

    * Roger Sherman, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    * William Johnson, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Oliver Ellsworth, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    New York

    * Alexander Hamilton, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * John Lansing, DUTCH REFORMED -- Calvinist
    * Robert Yates, DUTCH REFORMED -- Calvinist
    New Jersey

    * William Patterson, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * William Livingston, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * Jonathan Dayton, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * David Brearly, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * William Churchill Houston, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist

    Pennsylvania

    * Benjamin Franklin, DEIST
    * Robert Morris, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * James Wilson, DEIST
    * Gouverneur Morris, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Thomas Mifflin, QUAKER
    * George Clymer, QUAKER
    * Thomas FitzSimmons, ROMAN CATHOLIC
    * Jared Ingersoll, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist

    Delaware

    * John Dickinson, QUAKER
    * George Read, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Richard Bassett, METHODIST
    * Gunning Beford, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * Jacod Broom, LUTHERAN

    Maryland

    * Luther Martin, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Daniel Carroll, ROMAN CATHOLIC
    * John Mercer, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * James McHenry, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * Daniel Jennifer, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    Virginia

    * George Washington, EPISCOPALIAN (Non-Communicant)
    * James Madison, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * George Mason, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Edmund Randolph, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * James Blair, Jr., EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * James McClung, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * George Wythe, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    North Carolina

    * William Davie, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * Hugh Williamson, DEIST
    * William Blount, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * Alexander Martin, PRESBYTERIAN -- Calvinist
    * Richard Spaight, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    South Carolina

    * John Rutledge, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Charles Pinckney, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Pierce Butler, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * Charles Pinckney, III, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    Georgia

    * Abraham Baldwin, CONGREGATIONALIST -- Calvinist
    * William Leigh Pierce, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * William Houstoun, EPISCOPALIAN -- Calvinist
    * William Few, METHODIST


    This information is consistent with this statement from wikipedia:

    Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
     
  2. SolaSaint

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    Luke if we would go back and look at most Baptists from 100 years ago we would see the majority being Calvinists. The SBC specifically has abandoned the Doctrines of Grace they once wholeheartedly embraced. Very sad.:(
     
  3. Thomas Helwys

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    So, Episcopalians are all Calvinists? :laugh: :laugh:
     
  4. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Why do you laugh??

    They certainly were. Have you ever heard of the Thirty-nine Articles?
     
  5. saturneptune

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    A very fascinating list. The only thing that puzzles me is the Calvin-Episcopile connection. Since they were once connected to the Anglican church, and are the closest of the protestant denominations to the RCC, I am surprised that there is that close of a connection between the Episcopalian church and Calvinism.

    And yes, I have heard of the 39 articles.
     
  6. SolaSaint

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    So John Shelby Spong is a Calvinist?
     
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    The shift took place, if i recall, in the middle of the 16th century under the reign of king Edward VI, Henry VIII' son. You'll recall that Henry broke England free from the RCC. Edward led the country strongly toward Protestantism but when he died his sister Mary (Bloody Mary) tried to force the country back to Catholicism. This gave England her fill of RCC and so the Church of England thereafter ran headlong into the doctrines of the reformation.

    The Church of England is the Episcopal Church.
     
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    He is a liberal.

    Like many denominations the Episcopalians strayed far from their origins.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    When you turn away from the truth you turn into John Shelby Spong....or someone who moves to Bismark ND....and makes gutless drive by posts then runs away without any biblical content being offered.
     
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    What did I miss?
     
  11. Thomas Helwys

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    They certainly were not. You are obviously ignorant of the history and theology of the Anglican Communion (and I don't say that in a mean sense). Have you ever heard of the Elizabethan Settlement? Considering what had happened under Henry, Edward, and Mary, Elizabeth wanted to make the Church of England appealing and acceptable to as wide a segment of the English populace as was possible. This Settlement essentially made Anglicanism comprehensive and able to give shelter to many systems and parties, including High Church, Low Church, Broad Church, those with Lutheran sympathies and doctrines,those with Eastern Orthodox sympathies and doctrines, Arminians, Calvinists, Anglo-Catholics, Evangelicals, and later holiness, pentecostal, and more, all using and claiming to adhere to the 39 Articles. :)

    You might want to study Anglicanism more thoroughly before making blanket statements that are not historically accurate.
     
    #11 Thomas Helwys, Feb 9, 2013
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  12. Luke2427

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    In the founders' day it was especially true of those in the 13 colonies who'd not long before experienced The Great Awakening, an extraordinary revival led by thorough Calvinists in America, that Anglicans were Largely Calvinist.

    The Thirty-nine articles are Calvinistic. That episcopalians have strayed from them over the last 100 years is no argument to the contrary.

    Here is article 17:

    .


    J. I. Packer, a Calvinist Anglican, is quoted in this article by Joel Beeke.

    These were the Anglicans in the 13 Colonies.

     
    #12 Luke2427, Feb 9, 2013
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  13. Crabtownboy

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    My impression is that their Calvinism and the Calvinism you support are very different beliefs. I doubt they would recognize much of what is touted by Hyper-Calvinists as a Calvinism they believe in.

    I doubt that Calvin would recognize muc ow what is touted as Calvinism today.

    There was a Calanist scholar, widely known and published, who gave lectures here several years ago. I made the above statements to him in a question form and he agreed saying, "Calvin would not recognize many of the beliefs ascribed to him today."

    I do not have permission from this scholar to publish his name. I can supply it to you via private message if you desire to read his writings.
     
  14. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    This is a claim without support.

    Just because you doubt it doesn't make it not so.

    Calvin's beliefs are clearly and thoroughly laid out in the institutes. I have a copy right here.

    The Puritans and pilgrims were thorough Calvinists- more, not less, than the average Calvinist today.

    Episcopalians descended from these Puritans and the founding fathers among them had not long come out of The Great Awakening which was a powerful, thoroughly Calvinistic revival.
     
  15. Crabtownboy

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    As I said in the earlier post, I do not have this scholar's permission to name him in a public forum like this one. I can send you his name privately if you would like. It certainly is supported in what he said to me and in his writings. In effect he said that Calvin would recognize many of the beliefs attributed to him my modern Calvinists. Now you may not like that idea, but that is the idea he expressed ... and he does have an international reputation for scholarship.

    Have you read the book, by another author, High Calvinists In Action: Calvinism and the City, Manchester and London, 1810-1860?

    I would also like to know if you agree with the following statement?

     
    #15 Crabtownboy, Feb 9, 2013
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  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Gentlemen...so why do you still have anything to do with them?
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    And the Methodist may have well been Calvinists also!
     
  18. Thomas Helwys

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    I am not arguing that there was not Calvinist influence in the Articles. Archbishop Cranmer was influenced by Continental Protestantism, including Calvinism but also Lutheranism. Lutheranism was as influential on Cranmer as Calvinism was, maybe more so. After the Settlement, the Church of England and Anglicanism came to function as a "via media" between Protestantism and Catholicism.

    Episcopalians have strayed from the Articles over the last 100 years? Please! Ever heard of the Oxford Movement? This was a movement in the Church of England in the early to mid-1800's High Church Party that produced Anglo-Catholicism. The High Church party which had always existed in the COE back to the Settlement was Catholic in its sympathies, certainly the antithesis to Calvinism.

    John Wesley was a High Church Anglican prior to his "evangelical" conversion after which he retained his Arminianism.

    Calvinists were and are only one party in the Anglican Church and not the largest one, either. There are many such parties.

    I wrote my master's thesis on the Elizabethan Settlement, its aftermath and effect on British Christianity, including the Baptists in Britain, so I know what I'm talking about.

    As I said, it would do you good to thoroughly study the history of Anglicanism.
     
    #18 Thomas Helwys, Feb 9, 2013
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  19. HeirofSalvation

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    Yes..... they sold out on that whole slavery thing too :(

    :laugh:SORRY... I just couldn't resist any longer, It popped in my head the second I read this post 10 hours ago, and I've been exercising restraint since then. :laugh:
     
  20. Bro. James

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    Jon Chauvin, aka John Calvin, and his religious progeny are pedobaptists. Church of England(Anglican, Episcopal and splinters) are pedo baptists. The RCC is pedobaptist. The RCC is the mother of the above. The daughters have a lot in common with their mother, including the error of infant baptism.

    True Baptists are not pedobaptists. Many of them have died refusing to baptize their infants. True Baptists are not splinters of the so-called Protestant Reformation of the RCC. True Baptists have refused to recognize Rome as a church of God.

    How soon we forget.

    High, middle or low, most of this Calvinism stuff is ecumenical smoke screen.

    Even so, come Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
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