Remember the Alamo

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Dr. Bob, Mar 6, 2006.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    March 6, 1836 the siege of the Alamo ended. All 189 defenders, including the guy with the coon-skin hat and the guy with the big knife, died.

    Why remember this? It seems direct disobedience to orders and a fruitless waste of lives. Few days were delayed in Santa Ana's advance and few men actually hurt (in spite of Disney's movie version).
     
  2. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sad indeed. Makes me wonder if there had been modern communication would it have turned out the way it did.

    I'll sign my married surname to this:
    Debby Crockett
     
  3. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have no clue. I've been to the Alamo and after watching their little video my wife basically said the same thing you did, what a fruitless waste of lives. It seems an area of pride here in Texas, but not being "natives" I guess I don't get it either. To me it seemed like suicide instead of a noble battle. Any native Texans want to chime in?
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    We had our OWN "battle of the Alamo" at Christmas 1985. Took the wife and kids and parked in a free lot a few blocks from the riverwalk in San Antonio.

    We dropped down into the walk and did the almost circle loop, coming up at the Alamo. Did the tour, etc and it was dark early. I realized that if we backtracked, we'd walk a mile + to the car and the kids were tired.

    So they sat on the terraced concrete across from the Alamo looking down at the river and I "cut cross country" to where the car was.

    Got lost in the dark and maze. Finally recognized a landmark and aimed across a couple of big, nearly deserted lots toward my car. 3 hispanic guys started following me and so I picked up the pace. They started to run and so did I. Scared enough to have an adenalin burst and made it to the car. (They probably were playing the "let's scare the anglo dude game)

    It had been the better part of an hour. Wife and kids were being accosted by street people, beggars and all sorts of low-life and scared to death (we had only moved from a little town in rural Wisconsin the year before). When I finally pulled up to get them, they were in tears. So was I.

    Realized we were foreigners in a very strange land of hispanic (60% of the 1.2 million) and big-city (ranked 8th; Dallas 9th) types. Would not be long until we were like the 189 in the Alamo . . :rolleyes:
     
  5. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    1
    Perhaps the Alamo did more good than the short delay of Santa Anna's army. It may have added to his overconfidence and therefore may have aided in Sam Houston's victory at San Jacinto later.
     
  6. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    I think the Alamo likely had a negative effect on his army, in that he would have 2 or 3 times the number of his own troops killed than the 'troops' defeated, and offering no quarters but savagely murdering the last of them when their defenses were gone. Goliad probably worsened this negative psychological effect of their campaign, as over 300 surrendered, whom they lined up and massacred. When his army was sacked at Buffalo Bayou many Texans defied orders and continued firing at and stabbing the frightened Mexican troops shouting "Me no Alamo! No Goliad!" in response to their assailant's "Remember.....!" It seems hard to believe the defeat would have been that sound, as well as that Santa Anna's own men betrayed his identity when he was captured, without the negativity in their minds that began with the "Napolean of the west's" personal vendetta to avenge the recent defeat of his brother-n-law in San Antonio de Bejar.

    As to anything immediately "strategic" about the Alamo... neither side was too smart. Santa Anna had the city for over a week before the final assault, and he could have held the fort by leaving a garrison to guard the city and one to prevent their escape, in which case they would be starved into surrender or death, with little or no losses to his own troops. And the time and casualties on the Mexican army inflicted by the Texans' refusal to surrender was probably surpassed by Santa Anna's precociousness in the march, that he arrived too soon in season for the horses and cattle to have adequate grazing, which was against some good advice to attack primarily from sea closer to where the Texans were trying to organize.
     
  7. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    For more than 13 days, 186 brave and determined patriots withstood Santa Anna's seasoned army of over 5,000 troops. To a man, the defenders of that mission fort knew they would never leave those ramparts alive. They had several opportunities to leave and live. Yet, they chose to fight and die. How foolish they must look to this generation of spoiled Americans!

    <snip>

    Early in the siege, Travis wrote these words to the people of Texas: "Fellow Citizens & Compatriots: I am besieged by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna. The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot & our flag still waves proudly from the walls. I shall never surrender or retreat. VICTORY OR DEATH! P.S. The Lord is on our side."

    <snip>

    The brave men at the Alamo labored under the belief that America (and Texas) really was "the land of the free and the home of the brave." They believed God was on their side and that the freedom of future generations depended on their courage and resolve. They further believed their posterity would remember their sacrifice as an act of love and devotion. It all looks pale now.

    By today's standards, the gallant men of the Alamo appear rather foolish. After all, they had no chance of winning-none! However, the call for pragmatism and practicality was never sounded. Instead, they answered the clarion call, "Victory or death!"

    <snip>

    Please try to remember the heroes of the Alamo as you listen to our gutless political and religious leaders calling for compromise and tolerance. Try to recall the time in this country when ordinary men and women had the courage of their convictions and were willing to sacrifice their lives for freedom and independence.

    One thing is certain: those courageous champions did not die for a political party or for some "lesser of two evils" mantra! They fought and died for a principle. So did the men at Lexington and Concord. That is our heritage. On second thought, do they look foolish, or do we?

    Source: Chuck Baldwin
     
  8. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    I'm not from Texas but I kind of think those few people at the Alamo held a very different view of liberty than we do today.

    Read Travis' Appeal for Aid at the Alamo (24 February 1836)

    I figure Travis had the idea that liberty from government coercion and corruption was a worthy enough cause to face down an army that greatly outmubered his own and to face death rather than submit to it.

    Today liberty is to often mistaken for the right to cast a vote. Imho.
     
  9. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Quote the letter:

    "P. S. The Lord is on our side.
    When the enemy appeared in sight
    we had not three bushels of corn.
    We have since found in deserted
    houses 80 or 90 bushels & got into
    the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves."

    I believe this means they found that they had more food than they thought they had. What are "beeves?"
     
  10. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Messages:
    4,761
    Likes Received:
    0
    Beeves is an old English plural of the word beef.
     
  11. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,093
    Likes Received:
    218
    Is it really true that someone helped you sneak out thru a secret tunnel? [​IMG] :D

    Maverick
     
  12. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    the guy with the coon-skin hat is dead?

    Man, I gotta get up with the times. Mingo and Davy are still fighting the bad guys on TV.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,093
    Likes Received:
    218
    I didn't know Dr Bob wore a coon-skin hat. And he couldnt be dead, he just posted recently.

    Maverick
     
  14. Patrick Daniel

    Patrick Daniel
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    For more than 13 days, 186 brave and determined patriots withstood Santa Anna's seasoned army of over 5,000 troops. To a man, the defenders of that mission fort knew they would never leave those ramparts alive. They had several opportunities to leave and live. Yet, they chose to fight and die. How foolish they must look to this generation of spoiled Americans!

    <snip>

    Early in the siege, Travis wrote these words to the people of Texas: "Fellow Citizens & Compatriots: I am besieged by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna. The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot & our flag still waves proudly from the walls. I shall never surrender or retreat. VICTORY OR DEATH! P.S. The Lord is on our side."

    <snip>

    The brave men at the Alamo labored under the belief that America (and Texas) really was "the land of the free and the home of the brave." They believed God was on their side and that the freedom of future generations depended on their courage and resolve. They further believed their posterity would remember their sacrifice as an act of love and devotion. It all looks pale now.

    By today's standards, the gallant men of the Alamo appear rather foolish. After all, they had no chance of winning-none! However, the call for pragmatism and practicality was never sounded. Instead, they answered the clarion call, "Victory or death!"

    <snip>

    Please try to remember the heroes of the Alamo as you listen to our gutless political and religious leaders calling for compromise and tolerance. Try to recall the time in this country when ordinary men and women had the courage of their convictions and were willing to sacrifice their lives for freedom and independence.

    One thing is certain: those courageous champions did not die for a political party or for some "lesser of two evils" mantra! They fought and died for a principle. So did the men at Lexington and Concord. That is our heritage. On second thought, do they look foolish, or do we?

    Source: Chuck Baldwin
    </font>[/QUOTE]Very well put post. Too many in this age of spoiled/selfish people would prefer to run, or even worse, to compromise their ideals at the slightest hint of conflict.
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    Santa Anna was the best leader the USA had in that part of the world. He pulled defeat from the jaws of victory several times, both in texas & in the Mexican War.

    The Mexican soldiers were neither cowards nor poor soldiers. The Americans' main advantages in the Mexican war were mobility and better artillery. However, the Mexicans had far superior numbers, and any leader with a lick of sense woulda routed the Americans outta Mexico in two months. However, Santa Anna was NOT such a man. He was more a politician than general, and didn't have the sense to deploy ALL his available forces against the Americans in several battles.

    As for the Alamo...it mighta been a military blunder, but it served as a tremendous inspiration for the Texans in later battles. As I said earlier, the Mexicans were neither cowards nor poor soldiers & it took a supreme effort for the Texans to beat them. Luckily for the Texans, Santa Anna was the Mexicans' top general.
     
  16. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Messages:
    5,075
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hey Dr. Bob:

    How many casualties did they inflict upon the Santa Ana, and what did it represent in terms of his total force?

    Regards,
    BiR
     
  17. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Few years ago we drove to Texas for the purpuse of seeing the Alamo. It was located in the first wino haven we saw east of the Cascades.
     
  18. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a native Texan I will always remember the brave men who fought and died in the Alamo so that Texas could be sovereign and free.
     
  19. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like everything else, the victors write the history books. Many of the Alamo defenders were mercenaries, and the legitimacy of the Texas revolution can be debated. Still, the rallying cry of "Remember the Alamo, Remember Goliad" kept the Texians charged, until the traditional mid-day siesta caused Santa Ana's undoing at San Jacinto. Regardless of the pros and cons, I honor the fathers of Texas, such as Milam, Travis, Bowie, Crockett, Houston, Austin and the others.

    God Bless Texas!
     
  20. thjplgvp

    thjplgvp
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    978
    Likes Received:
    23
    Has someone stolen MP's identity? :eek: [​IMG]

    A patriotic Post??? The world will never be the same. ;) :D
     

Share This Page

Loading...